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system gradually slows down and eventually stops

Linux Kernel, Network, and Services configuration.
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hopefulp
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system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#1 Post by hopefulp »

Hey, guys

I am using Debian 10, and gnome version is 3.30.2

Sometimes the system stops, not responding for the mouse and keyboard. Gradually the system slows down and stops, in my opinion.
Then I found that the memory has problem where buff/cache continuously grows.

After turn on the system and running firefox, VM Player and some terminal, top shows
MiB Mem : 32025.4 total, 18155.8 free, 3703.2 used, 10166.3 buff/cache

After sometime
MiB Mem : 32025.4 total, 17303.5 free, 3906.2 used, 10815.7 buff/cache

I have found that the memory of buff/cache grows continuously

Now after one day,
MiB Mem : 32025.4 total, 735 free, 6724 used, 24579 buff/cache

The free memory is just a few hundreds and buff/cache is about 25 GB.

It will be abnormal and how can I fix it.

Joonho

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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#2 Post by mm3100 »

https://www.linuxatemyram.com/

Can you check available memory with free -h? As that is the only parameter you should be concerned with.

Marie SWE
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#3 Post by Marie SWE »

with your own word: Sometimes the system stops, not responding for the mouse and keyboard. Gradually the system slows down and stops, in my opinion. it's almost sounds like swap death.. :roll:

But that often happens on low end computers or if you using very memoryhungry programs..
I have 8GB ram on my laptop and a HDD(mechanical disk).. that one does often experience the old swapdeath phenomenon when the computer stops responding mouse, keyboard, screen..everything just freezes.. but the cpu is almost at idle.
I have researched a lot in the swapdeath phenomenon and I have found that one of the problem lies in the I/O bus to disk writing has the highest priority and thereby locking everything when disk-usage is higher than 95%..
This problem dates back from the 90s and are mentioned by Linus him self in the 90s
It's not a distro problem it is a memory kernel problem... Linux kernel is mainly for servers, but it has been adapted for desktop environments. But the kernel is still being developed primarily for servers. And servers VS desktop in how the memory are used is night and day. you don't use firefox or desktop environments on servers. and a server usually has a lot more memory than a desktops.. and they often has faster disks as SAS dualchannel in raid and so on.
Linux world solution on the problem from the 90s is "Ad more RAM".. no one has tried to solved the problem.. it's only desktops that experience this problem mostly...
I have worked on a workaround solution, but I'm not quite home yet.

Feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood this phenomenon :mrgreen: I am still learning.. and i am a Linux noobie :D

With that said.. 8)
it can be that you have a memory leak in some program that eats up your memory?
Can you see which program uses the most memory?
I'm bad at terminal commands so I use the system monitor to see what programs/services use different amount of memory


What do you have for hardware?

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxz
is a good tool to list hardware and more
Why make things complicated in life, if you can make it easier for yourself... Do it. ;o)
You only have one life, so make the most of it and enjoy it while you can.

millpond
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#4 Post by millpond »

I had that problem with 4Gb, but its almost all gone at 8Gb memory.

What does seem to help is installing the autonice daemon, and changing priorities in the System Monitor.

Might want to try a different VM software, as they can definitely gobble up resources.

I am assuming cache = swap. If no swap file/partition - it *could* be an issue.

Historically if your disk usage approached 90% the system would start to freeze up. About 10% is 'secretly' allocated for other purposes.

One of the biggest problems I have had was anacron scheduling *find* to update databases. That pulls alot of HD resources and those daemons really should be restricted only to activate when there is NO user activity.

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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#5 Post by eor2004 »

@ OP: I suspect problem is the "tracker-miner" Gnome thingy, a while ago I was using Gnome as my DE and it made my system very sluggish when it was running, I had to disable it to make system usable again!

Do you have a swap partition on your system & how much space is it? It's your CPU thermal paste good?
CPU fan working good & free of dust?
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#6 Post by Bulkley »

My desktop was cobbled together with old parts and 4Gb memory. The best improvement was a solid state drive. The effective improvement was/is Wow!

hopefulp
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#7 Post by hopefulp »

mm3100 wrote: 2021-08-17 07:33 https://www.linuxatemyram.com/

Can you check available memory with free -h? As that is the only parameter you should be concerned with.
base) joonho@eta: ~$ free -h
total used free shared buff/cache available
Mem: 31Gi 4.6Gi 1.2Gi 835Mi 25Gi 25Gi
Swap: 976Mi 63Mi 913Mi

buff/cache looks available. But the system response becomes slower. At the beginning of the system, when I put the mouse on "Applications" and pull down menu, it shows quickly the sub menu but it is now slower in responce

hopefulp
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#8 Post by hopefulp »

Marie SWE wrote: 2021-08-17 14:33 with your own word: Sometimes the system stops, not responding for the mouse and keyboard. Gradually the system slows down and stops, in my opinion. it's almost sounds like swap death.. :roll:

But that often happens on low end computers or if you using very memoryhungry programs..
I have 8GB ram on my laptop and a HDD(mechanical disk).. that one does often experience the old swapdeath phenomenon when the computer stops responding mouse, keyboard, screen..everything just freezes.. but the cpu is almost at idle.
I have researched a lot in the swapdeath phenomenon and I have found that one of the problem lies in the I/O bus to disk writing has the highest priority and thereby locking everything when disk-usage is higher than 95%..
This problem dates back from the 90s and are mentioned by Linus him self in the 90s
It's not a distro problem it is a memory kernel problem... Linux kernel is mainly for servers, but it has been adapted for desktop environments. But the kernel is still being developed primarily for servers. And servers VS desktop in how the memory are used is night and day. you don't use firefox or desktop environments on servers. and a server usually has a lot more memory than a desktops.. and they often has faster disks as SAS dualchannel in raid and so on.
Linux world solution on the problem from the 90s is "Ad more RAM".. no one has tried to solved the problem.. it's only desktops that experience this problem mostly...
I have worked on a workaround solution, but I'm not quite home yet.

Feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood this phenomenon :mrgreen: I am still learning.. and i am a Linux noobie :D

With that said.. 8)
it can be that you have a memory leak in some program that eats up your memory?
Can you see which program uses the most memory?
I'm bad at terminal commands so I use the system monitor to see what programs/services use different amount of memory


What do you have for hardware?

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxz
is a good tool to list hardware and more
While I am learning your explanation, I attach system info, though it looks long.
System: Host: eta Kernel: 4.19.0-17-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0 Desktop: Gnome 3.30.2
Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Machine: Type: Desktop System: SAMSUNG product: 500TCA/500SCA v: CAAAAAAF serial: <filter>
Mobo: SAMSUNG model: DM500TCZ-AD7A v: SAMSUNG_SW_REVISION_12345+0.0.0000 serial: <filter> UEFI: American Megatrends
v: P03QEC.020.201205.CL date: 12/05/2020
Battery: Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech K520 charge: 70% (should be ignored) status: Discharging
Device-2: hidpp_battery_1 model: Logitech Wireless Mouse charge: 50% (should be ignored) status: N/A
CPU: Topology: 8-Core model: Intel Core i7-10700 bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: N/A L2 cache: 16.0 MiB
flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 92800
Speed: 4421 MHz min/max: 800/4800 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 3674 2: 3177 3: 3150 4: 3309 5: 3704 6: 2701 7: 3199
8: 3370 9: 3220 10: 3411 11: 3184 12: 3219 13: 3176 14: 3214 15: 3178 16: 3266
Graphics: Device-1: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Ellesmere [Radeon RX 470/480] vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: amdgpu
v: kernel bus ID: 01:00.0
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: ati,radeon,vesa unloaded: fbdev,modesetting
resolution: 3840x2160~60Hz, 3840x2160~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: AMD Radeon RX 470 Graphics (POLARIS10 DRM 3.27.0 4.19.0-17-amd64 LLVM 7.0.1) v: 4.5 Mesa 18.3.6
direct render: Yes
Audio: Device-1: Intel vendor: Samsung Co driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1f.3
Device-2: AMD Ellesmere HDMI Audio [Radeon RX 470/480 / 570/580/590] vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: snd_hda_intel
v: kernel bus ID: 01:00.1
Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-17-amd64
Network: Device-1: Intel driver: N/A port: N/A bus ID: 00:14.3
Device-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: Samsung Co driver: r8169 v: kernel
port: 3000 bus ID: 02:00.0
IF: enp2s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
IF-ID-1: vmnet1 state: unknown speed: N/A duplex: N/A mac: <filter>
IF-ID-2: vmnet8 state: unknown speed: N/A duplex: N/A mac: <filter>
Drives: Local Storage: total: 2.29 TiB used: 442.13 GiB (18.9%)
ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Samsung model: MZVLQ256HAJD-000 size: 238.47 GiB
ID-2: /dev/sda vendor: Samsung model: SSD 850 PRO 256GB size: 238.47 GiB
ID-3: /dev/sdb vendor: Seagate model: ST2000DM008-2FR102 size: 1.82 TiB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 27.38 GiB used: 10.23 GiB (37.4%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2
ID-2: /home size: 204.80 GiB used: 148.63 GiB (72.6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p4
ID-3: swap-1 size: 977.0 MiB used: 64.8 MiB (6.6%) fs: swap dev: /dev/nvme0n1p3
Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 41.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 45 C
Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: amdgpu fan: 1121
Info: Processes: 382 Uptime: 20h 22m Memory: 31.27 GiB used: 6.88 GiB (22.0%) Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Compilers:
gcc: 8.3.0 Shell: bash v: 5.0.3 inxi: 3.0.32

hopefulp
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#9 Post by hopefulp »

millpond wrote: 2021-08-17 20:30 I had that problem with 4Gb, but its almost all gone at 8Gb memory.

What does seem to help is installing the autonice daemon, and changing priorities in the System Monitor.

Might want to try a different VM software, as they can definitely gobble up resources.

I am assuming cache = swap. If no swap file/partition - it *could* be an issue.

Historically if your disk usage approached 90% the system would start to freeze up. About 10% is 'secretly' allocated for other purposes.

One of the biggest problems I have had was anacron scheduling *find* to update databases. That pulls alot of HD resources and those daemons really should be restricted only to activate when there is NO user activity.
I have moved some directories and recover the harddisk usage 39% from 77%. At the moment free memory recovered 7G and buff/cache becomes 20G from 26G. But it does not make the system faster. The response of the system is similar to the before and it is slow. And the buff/cache memory looks increase gradually. I might try another VM later.

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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#10 Post by Aki »

Hello hopefulp,
hopefulp wrote: 2021-08-18 02:55 I have moved some directories and recover the harddisk usage 39% from 77%. At the moment free memory recovered 7G and buff/cache becomes 20G from 26G. But it does not make the system faster. The response of the system is similar to the before and it is slow. And the buff/cache memory looks increase gradually. I might try another VM later.
According to your previous messages and logs, your computer seems quite powerful as for memory capability (32 GiB) and for size/speed of storage (NVM and HDD). It is perfectly normal that Linux Kernel progressively moves memory resources (RAM) from free memory to buffers/caches when programs don't require more free memory: this is the scenario you are describing. In fact, the Linux kernel moves back memory resources from buffers/cache to used/free memory when programs require more memory,

Therefore, there should be a reason different from memory usage to explain the slowdown you have reported in the graphic user interface. It could be something at system level (in this case, it should be recorded in the system log).

It could be useful to inspect full system logs to analyze if suspect messages are present during slowdowns: in this case, it could be useful to know the date/time at which slowdown occurs. For example, you could dump the system log since the last boot in a compressed file (journalctl.gz, in the following example) with the following command executed as root user:

Code: Select all

journalctl --no-pager -b -0  | gzip -9 > journalctl.gz
The journalctl.gz could be, for example, attached to a following message to let other users to check it or to check it by yourself.
hopefulp wrote: 2021-08-18 02:55 I might try another VM later.
What do you mean ? Why are you talking about a VM (Virtual Machine) ? Is the slow down detected in the VM (guest) and not in the server (host) ?
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hopefulp
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#11 Post by hopefulp »

hopefulp wrote: 2021-08-18 02:55 I might try another VM later.
What do you mean ? Why are you talking about a VM (Virtual Machine) ? Is the slow down detected in the VM (guest) and not in the server (host) ?
[/quote]

I feel that it is the problem of VM player. Though it is not long time before I start virtual machine after login, the status of the system is very good for that time. It looks after turning on VM player, it start to slack.
Now, I am trying to make a new VM but it still shows a problem in making virtualbox (VB) conceive the new vm. Firstly, I have used VB and at that time there was no problem. But oneday someting was broken in VM (windows 10, in a separate ssd) and VB failes but VM player can run on the same vmdk.
Today I made a new vmdk for /dev/sda (Windows 10) but VB fails with "FATAL: No bootable medium found! System halted" while VM player is running on the same vmdk.

The lagging appears on host (debian 10). The response for the mouse selection becomes lagging, while typing on the terminal looks a little good.

Though I have attached journal file today, the system is still good. After turning on the system and running VM player, it has not passed long time. The response of the system to the mouse pointer is still good. I will report again after some times has passed.

Thanks for your explanation for the issue of the size of buffer/cache.
Attachments
journalctl.gz
(42.96 KiB) Downloaded 80 times

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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#12 Post by Aki »

Try to analyze what are the processes of host operating system that consume more CPU time (as percentage) during the slow down: you can use the program top or htop or atop for this purpose.
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hopefulp
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#13 Post by hopefulp »

hopefulp wrote: 2021-08-18 02:55
millpond wrote: 2021-08-17 20:30 I had that problem with 4Gb, but its almost all gone at 8Gb memory.

What does seem to help is installing the autonice daemon, and changing priorities in the System Monitor.

Might want to try a different VM software, as they can definitely gobble up resources.

I am assuming cache = swap. If no swap file/partition - it *could* be an issue.

Historically if your disk usage approached 90% the system would start to freeze up. About 10% is 'secretly' allocated for other purposes.

One of the biggest problems I have had was anacron scheduling *find* to update databases. That pulls alot of HD resources and those daemons really should be restricted only to activate when there is NO user activity.
I have moved some directories and recover the harddisk usage 39% from 77%. At the moment free memory recovered 7G and buff/cache becomes 20G from 26G. But it does not make the system faster. The response of the system is similar to the before and it is slow. And the buff/cache memory looks increase gradually. I might try another VM later.

hopefulp
Posts: 21
Joined: 2017-01-10 18:54

Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#14 Post by hopefulp »

millpond wrote: 2021-08-17 20:30 I had that problem with 4Gb, but its almost all gone at 8Gb memory.

What does seem to help is installing the autonice daemon, and changing priorities in the System Monitor.

Might want to try a different VM software, as they can definitely gobble up resources.

I am assuming cache = swap. If no swap file/partition - it *could* be an issue.

Historically if your disk usage approached 90% the system would start to freeze up. About 10% is 'secretly' allocated for other purposes.

One of the biggest problems I have had was anacron scheduling *find* to update databases. That pulls alot of HD resources and those daemons really should be restricted only to activate when there is NO user activity.
I have fixed VB error and can run VB also. The check of "EFI" has fixed the "No bootable device error". But the situation does not become much better, just a little better. I can use the system only one day. Today, the next day it is sluggish again. I can do some works at the moment but I feel I am trying reinstallation of OS in sometime.

I tried to upload journal file but I can't due to the size of the file over 700 MB.

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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#15 Post by Marie SWE »

It seems as your swap is on a mechanical HDD
Drives: Local Storage: total: 2.29 TiB used: 442.13 GiB (18.9%)
ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Samsung model: MZVLQ256HAJD-000 size: 238.47 GiB
ID-2: /dev/sda vendor: Samsung model: SSD 850 PRO 256GB size: 238.47 GiB
ID-3: /dev/sdb vendor: Seagate model: ST2000DM008-2FR102 size: 1.82 TiB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 27.38 GiB used: 10.23 GiB (37.4%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2
ID-2: /home size: 204.80 GiB used: 148.63 GiB (72.6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p4
ID-3: swap-1 size: 977.0 MiB used: 64.8 MiB (6.6%) fs: swap dev: /dev/nvme0n1p3

so you can add: zswap.enabled=1 to grub and see if it speeds up a little.. it will make swap a little more efficiently on HDD drives
Location: /etc/default/grub
You need to open the grub file as administrator/root
Change this
From
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
To
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash zswap.enabled=1"
Save file
Don't forget open terminal and command: sudo update-grub

Have you identified what's eating your RAM?
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#16 Post by Aki »

hopefulp wrote: 2021-08-24 02:45 [..] the situation does not become much better, just a little better. I can use the system only one day. Today, the next day it is sluggish again. I can do some works at the moment but I feel I am trying reinstallation of OS in sometime. I tried to upload journal file but I can't due to the size of the file over 700 MB.
Hello hopefulp,

If you used the command I suggested in my previous message [1], it's quite strange a compressed log file so big is generated in only one day. Therefore, this might make suspect that it is full of error messages.

Then, as stated in previous message, I suggest to check and report about the CPU usage on host by running processes when the system slows down.

@Marie SWE:
According to data given by hopefulp [1], this should not be a memory usage issue.

[1] viewtopic.php?p=741045#p741045
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#17 Post by Marie SWE »

Aki wrote: 2021-08-24 17:08 @Marie SWE:
According to data given by hopefulp [1], this should not be a memory usage issue.

[1] viewtopic.php?p=741045#p741045
Hi :D
I just answered the post viewtopic.php?p=741021#p741021 as the phenomenon described by @hopefulp sounded a little like swap death, which I often encounter on my computers with HDD and low RAM.. so that's why I only mentioned zswap as helpful for mechanical disks with swap on. :wink:
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#18 Post by Aki »

Marie SWE wrote: 2021-08-24 18:03 Hi :D
I just answered the post viewtopic.php?p=741021#p741021 as the phenomenon described by @hopefulp sounded a little like swap death, which I often encounter on my computers with HDD and low RAM.. so that's why I only mentioned zswap as helpful for mechanical disks with swap on. :wink:
Hello Marie SWE,
Yes, you are right: the issue initially has been reported by the OP as a probable memory issue, even if swap has always been reported as underused and there was plenty of available memory (as free memory or buffer/cache memory). Of course, as you correctly pointed out, if the swap memory would be heavily used, it would slow down the operating system both on a SSD or a mechanical disk (HDD) .
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#19 Post by Marie SWE »

Aki wrote: 2021-08-24 20:00 Hello Marie SWE,
Yes, you are right: the issue initially has been reported by the OP as a probable memory issue, even if swap has always been reported as underused and there was plenty of available memory (as free memory or buffer/cache memory). Of course, as you correctly pointed out, if the swap memory would be heavily used, it would slow down the operating system both on a SSD or a mechanical disk (HDD) .
:oops: I didn't read everything before I answered.. I clicked on notifications and saw an answer to me and I forgot to click quote :oops:
I have never used an SSD for the reason spent $/GB.. HDD is much cheaper, so I am stuck with them. :lol:
But does the system slow down with SSD too? I thought swap death was a HDD thing.

I'm thinking of starting a thread about swap death... Last year I spent a lot of researching on the subject as my computers can freeze anywhere from five minutes up to over an hour. I saw that Linus himself discussed swap death as early as 1996 or if it was 1998.. Their solution then and up to present time is: add more RAM
So I'm a little curious about trying to find a solution or a good reliable workaround.. I have found some things, but it doesn't solve it, only partially..

And to recover the computer from sleep mode.. is a pain in the B***.. up to 20-30 minutes :shock: I really miss windows those times :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
(save ram to disk, if sleep mode was wrong English word choice)
But i will never go back to win.. rather 20-30 minutes waiting for the system to wake up. than windows ever again :mrgreen: I'm so glad I am free from MS after 32 years.
Now it became too much offtopic in this thread, so it's better I create a thread about it in the future. :oops:
Why make things complicated in life, if you can make it easier for yourself... Do it. ;o)
You only have one life, so make the most of it and enjoy it while you can.

hopefulp
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Re: system gradually slows down and eventually stops

#20 Post by hopefulp »

Hi, guys

Thank you for your concerns and comments.
But eventually someone solved the problem. Now teamveiwer host is removed and the system is stable now. Now One day has past and the system still responds quickly to the mouse.

He said teamviewer uses virtual env and it collides with VM env, such as VM player or virtualbox (VB) in Debian.

But I am afraid that this is not completely correct because I have used debian with teamviewer and VB for 5 months.
Sometimes the system became stuck and I should have reboot but I didn't know why.
And someday VB was broken and the system gets worse. The vmdk file could be open in VM player but VB. So I tried to make a new vmdk file and VB can be connected to the new vmdk file. But the system didnot get better.

Yesterday, I removed teamviewer host-version and now the system is stable.

This is the story and I am sorry that I didnot mention teamviewer at the beginning.

It looks the system is fine and if something different occurs, I will add more statement here.

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