Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian 9

Need help with peripherals or devices?
Message
Author
melfn
Posts: 34
Joined: 2016-09-23 20:41

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#16 Post by melfn »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
melfn wrote:
And no, a kernel installation will not touch any files in /lib/firmware and anyway the µcode is baked into the (old) initramfs so it wouldn't matter if it did.
How can you be so sure?
Because the kernel package doesn't touch anything in /lib/firmware
That may be true for the wifi, but how can you be so sure that literally all the other parts of the operating system will work after the update?

User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
Posts: 13450
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#17 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

No but I can be sure that if things don't work then you can just reboot and select the old kernel in the Advanced Options boot sub-menu to get things working again.
Black Lives Matter

Debian buster-backports ISO image: for new hardware support

melfn
Posts: 34
Joined: 2016-09-23 20:41

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#18 Post by melfn »

I haven't updated the kernel (yet) but I found the cause of the problem: my computer freezes every time I try to resize an xfce-4-terminal window or gnome-terminal window by dragging and dropping the bottom right corner (I am not joking). Xterm works flawlessly.

I have found some related post that maybe could help me and which I will read tomorrow, but before asking again for your support I will update the kernel.

Thank you for everything, I'll let you know.

LE_746F6D617A7A69
Posts: 517
Joined: 2020-05-03 14:16

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#19 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

2020-05-30 20:57 ::
melfn wrote:I haven't updated the kernel (yet)
2020-05-21 15:04
melfn wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
melfn wrote:

Code: Select all

root@mirandolina:~# uname -a
Linux mirandolina 4.6.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.6.4-1 (2016-07-18) x86_64 GNU/Linux
^ Where did you get that kernel from? Try the buster kernel instead and see if things work better with that.

And be sure to consult the official release notes, they contain a detailed guide for upgrades from stretch to buster.
(...)
I took that kernel from nowhere in particular: it came with Debian 9 when I installed it back in 2017 (Debian 9 was the testing distribution at that time if I remember well)
Really?
Nobody have noticed what is going on here? Debian 9 Stretch was released starting with kernel v4.9, not v4.6 -> frankendebian or simply a broken system

Don't Break Debian

Regards
Bill Gates: "(...) In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their operating system."
The_full_story and Nothing_have_changed

User avatar
stevepusser
Posts: 12408
Joined: 2009-10-06 05:53
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#20 Post by stevepusser »

I don't know either how Stretch had a 4.6 kernel in 2017, following the OP's account. The 4.9 kernel was frozen into it in late 2016.
MX Linux packager and developer

melfn
Posts: 34
Joined: 2016-09-23 20:41

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#21 Post by melfn »

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote: Really?
Nobody have noticed what is going on here? Debian 9 Stretch was released starting with kernel v4.9, not v4.6 -> frankendebian or simply a broken system

Don't Break Debian

Regards
My system is definitely a frankendebian. Say whatever you want but this configuration was the only one I managed to boot on my laptop. I explained the reasons why I can't update the kernel a few posts ago.

I will try to update the kernel, I promise, just not now.

LE_746F6D617A7A69
Posts: 517
Joined: 2020-05-03 14:16

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#22 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

melfn wrote:My system is definitely a frankendebian.
I have no doubt it is -> You should change the title of this topic, because You're NOT using Debian 10, and it's not Debian 10 which is freezing on Your laptop -> apparently You're using some mix of software packages which are incompatible with each other.

I don't think that by simply upgrading the kernel You'll magically solve all the problems.
IMO You should perform a clean install of the OS, then we can talk about how unstable Debian Buster is ...

Regards.
Bill Gates: "(...) In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their operating system."
The_full_story and Nothing_have_changed

melfn
Posts: 34
Joined: 2016-09-23 20:41

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#23 Post by melfn »

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:
melfn wrote:My system is definitely a frankendebian.
I have no doubt it is -> You should change the title of this topic, because You're NOT using Debian 10, and it's not Debian 10 which is freezing on Your laptop -> apparently You're using some mix of software packages which are incompatible with each other.
I didn't know I had an outdated kernel until the other users made me notice that when they read the hardware report in the first post of this topic: that's why I didn't include it in the title.

As for the other software: it is updated as I did a full upgrade before posting. I was surprised that the package manager doesn't update the kernel by default.

I don't think that by simply upgrading the kernel You'll magically solve all the problems.
I don't think either, but the other users keep putting me on pressure so I update. Also, since I don't have an updated system it does not make sense to search for the other causes of the problem.

IMO You should perform a clean install of the OS, then we can talk about how unstable Debian Buster is ...

Regards.
Performing a clean install is not possible right now for the reasons I explained a few posts ago.

As for the stability, I found that the problem appears when I resize the xfce4-terminal or gnome-terminal by dragging and dropping the bottom right corner. Clicking on the buttons on the window title bars works flawlessly. Xterm and the other program windows work flawlessly. It seems pretty much a software bug to me, don't you agree?

LE_746F6D617A7A69
Posts: 517
Joined: 2020-05-03 14:16

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#24 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

melfn wrote:As for the stability, I found that the problem appears when I resize the xfce4-terminal or gnome-terminal by dragging and dropping the bottom right corner. Clicking on the buttons on the window title bars works flawlessly. Xterm and the other program windows work flawlessly. It seems pretty much a software bug to me, don't you agree?
First, You didn't made a full upgrade - I suppose that missing kernel is just a tip of the iceberg...

You're talking like an Ubuntu user who is surprised that after installing tons of PPAs the system suddenly crashes.
What could happen? Aren't all that libs supposed to be backward and forward compatible with everything around?
Well, NO...
Bill Gates: "(...) In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their operating system."
The_full_story and Nothing_have_changed

melfn
Posts: 34
Joined: 2016-09-23 20:41

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#25 Post by melfn »

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:
melfn wrote:As for the stability, I found that the problem appears when I resize the xfce4-terminal or gnome-terminal by dragging and dropping the bottom right corner. Clicking on the buttons on the window title bars works flawlessly. Xterm and the other program windows work flawlessly. It seems pretty much a software bug to me, don't you agree?
First, You didn't made a full upgrade - I suppose that missing kernel is just a tip of the iceberg...
How do you know that I didn't do a full upgrade? My /etc/apt/sources.list is identical to the Debian 10 default one (fresh install), with the main, contrib and non-free components enabled. apt doesn't show any upgradable package.

Anyway I can check whether my system is up to date or not, what do you want to know in particular?
You're talking like an Ubuntu user who is surprised that after installing tons of PPAs the system suddenly crashes.
What does Ubuntu have to do with my problem? Also I didn't add any external PPA.

What could happen? Aren't all that libs supposed to be backward and forward compatible with everything around?
Well, NO...
As I told a dozen of times I'm waiting for the moment when I can update the kernel to see if my problem does not appear in the fully upgraded system.

andre@home
Posts: 398
Joined: 2011-10-02 08:00

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#26 Post by andre@home »

Suppose... you've putting all the energy in a fresh install.... after first making a backup/image of your current system... you might already being finished with that.... and have an answer on the instability?
How it goes now... the impression is... it does not work... you lose track of what you have done? Do you have log book to make note what you change? To be honest.. I have.... I'm not a Linux starter and not a pro ... but I hate double work... So next to the log book I've images of all my installations...systems are on line in no time. :mrgreen:

melfn
Posts: 34
Joined: 2016-09-23 20:41

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#27 Post by melfn »

andre@home wrote:Suppose... you've putting all the energy in a fresh install.... after first making a backup/image of your current system... you might already being finished with that.... and have an answer on the instability?
How it goes now... the impression is... it does not work... you lose track of what you have done? Do you have log book to make note what you change? To be honest.. I have.... I'm not a Linux starter and not a pro ... but I hate double work... So next to the log book I've images of all my installations...systems are on line in no time. :mrgreen:
If you read the previous posts you will know the reason why I could not update the kernel right now. For the same reason i cannot do a fresh install.

andre@home
Posts: 398
Joined: 2011-10-02 08:00

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#28 Post by andre@home »

took that kernel from nowhere in particular: it came with Debian 9 when I installed it back in 2017 (Debian 9 was the testing distribution at that time if I remember well)
LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:2020-05-30 20:57 ::
Really?
Nobody have noticed what is going on here? Debian 9 Stretch was released starting with kernel v4.9, not v4.6 -> frankendebian or simply a broken system

Don't Break Debian
Regards
I join this reaction on your "right" kernel.
So how much effort does it take to make an image of your current OS and you can test a fresh install.
Or: For just testing reason get your self some cheap or free hard disk that is laying under the dust and do the test with that disk and than your current disk stays as it is now.
First of all you learn from the fresh install and second... .it may solve all your problems...also the frankendebian you may have..

melfn
Posts: 34
Joined: 2016-09-23 20:41

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#29 Post by melfn »

andre@home wrote:
took that kernel from nowhere in particular: it came with Debian 9 when I installed it back in 2017 (Debian 9 was the testing distribution at that time if I remember well)
LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:2020-05-30 20:57 ::
Really?
Nobody have noticed what is going on here? Debian 9 Stretch was released starting with kernel v4.9, not v4.6 -> frankendebian or simply a broken system

Don't Break Debian
Regards
I join this reaction on your "right" kernel.
So how much effort does it take to make an image of your current OS and you can test a fresh install.
A lot of effort actually.
It took me three evenings to install Debian on this laptop (see the previous posts) and there is no guarantee that the system will work with the new setting. Also in this period I have deadlines and other stuff so I cannot take the risk of making a fresh install now.

Or: For just testing reason get your self some cheap or free hard disk that is laying under the dust and do the test with that disk and than your current disk stays as it is now.
First of all you learn from the fresh install and second... .it may solve all your problems...also the frankendebian you may have..
I need it to work with this hardware. I will do a kernel upgrade when it's time.

andre@home
Posts: 398
Joined: 2011-10-02 08:00

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#30 Post by andre@home »

I run my full disk images when I sleep... so very efficient wrt time.
For critical systems I've always a complete ready to go disk to replace the problem disk.
Such actions give a lot of rest/confidence in case of a problem.... as if you then have a problem.. and you have to solve that instantaneously ... I wish that person a lot of strength.... while changing my disk maybe takes 5-15 minutes at max. Disks are so cheap, when you organize data storage in another way. You "just" have to organize your IT a little bit focused for that route. But you get the reward when you suddenly have a disk problem that can be solved by putting in the spare disk.
Not getting to the deadlines ... may much more expensive if you keep on crumbling forward...

What laptop (with type name/nr) do you have?

Succes with your challenges.

melfn
Posts: 34
Joined: 2016-09-23 20:41

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#31 Post by melfn »

andre@home wrote:I run my full disk images when I sleep... so very efficient wrt time.
For critical systems I've always a complete ready to go disk to replace the problem disk.
Such actions give a lot of rest/confidence in case of a problem.... as if you then have a problem.. and you have to solve that instantaneously ... I wish that person a lot of strength.... while changing my disk maybe takes 5-15 minutes at max. Disks are so cheap, when you organize data storage in another way. You "just" have to organize your IT a little bit focused for that route. But you get the reward when you suddenly have a disk problem that can be solved by putting in the spare disk.
I have a full disk backup on another media.

Not getting to the deadlines ... may much more expensive if you keep on crumbling forward...
I don't understand what do you mean.

What laptop (with type name/nr) do you have?

Succes with your challenges.
Please find this information in the hardware report in the very first topic.

andre@home
Posts: 398
Joined: 2011-10-02 08:00

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#32 Post by andre@home »

Sorry about missing the tech specs that you already posted in #1.

Dell Inspiron 13-7359 (06FD): Compared to the Latitude or Precision the Inspirons are still nice machines, but much less flexible than the others.
So you likely do not have the option to have a 2nd HD permanently in another bay. Inspirons are built more to be a consumer laptop not a professional type.
Of course with your budget you may already be very glad with what you have now.

Still it is pretty easy to change the hard disk with a cheap extra HD, which gives you still the option to find out installing the newest Debian and see if it works as you like.
In this way you avoid the risk of loosing the installation which is on your current disk.

I consider this as a far beter option then taking the risk thats involves also an unpredictable loss of time, to continue with your current system and stubble forwards to some solution with that.
So far you did not show a solid plan to realize that based on all the input given.

In my proposal you at least separate testing the new installation from the problems you have on your original system/disk.
As your original disk is your production system.... and it is called on the forum a > frankendebian or simply a broken system.
In my position I would not sleep very well with that status.

Separation of problem and the route for a solution would be my choice.
As:
Never do experiments to go for a solution on your production laptop....


Or is the cost of a buying a 1 TB hard disk starting at ~ 45 euros, 2 TB starting at ~ 65 euros a problem? An SSD is somewhat more expensive.

melfn
Posts: 34
Joined: 2016-09-23 20:41

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#33 Post by melfn »

andre@home wrote:Sorry about missing the tech specs that you already posted in #1.
no problem

Dell Inspiron 13-7359 (06FD): Compared to the Latitude or Precision the Inspirons are still nice machines, but much less flexible than the others.
So you likely do not have the option to have a 2nd HD permanently in another bay. Inspirons are built more to be a consumer laptop not a professional type.
Of course with your budget you may already be very glad with what you have now.
As I told before the hardware is a given, I can't afford/don't want to buy a new laptop now.


Still it is pretty easy to change the hard disk with a cheap extra HD, which gives you still the option to find out installing the newest Debian and see if it works as you like.
In this way you avoid the risk of loosing the installation which is on your current disk.
I consider this as a far beter option then taking the risk thats involves also an unpredictable loss of time, to continue with your current system and stubble forwards to some solution with that.
I can't open my pc. I mean: I'm not able to and also I don't want to.

So far you did not show a solid plan to realize that based on all the input given.
So far my plan is: I'll update the kernel when it is possible (definitely not now). If it does work maybe I'll do a fresh install.

In my proposal you at least separate testing the new installation from the problems you have on your original system/disk.
As your original disk is your production system.... and it is called on the forum a > frankendebian or simply a broken system.
In my position I would not sleep very well with that status.

Separation of problem and the route for a solution would be my choice.
As:
Never do experiments to go for a solution on your production laptop....


Or is the cost of a buying a 1 TB hard disk starting at ~ 45 euros, 2 TB starting at ~ 65 euros a problem? An SSD is somewhat more expensive.
I've never heard of production laptops before. Relax, it's just a laptop (not a server nor a commodity machine...).

andre@home
Posts: 398
Joined: 2011-10-02 08:00

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#34 Post by andre@home »

melfn wrote:I've never heard of production laptops before. Relax, it's just a laptop (not a server nor a commodity machine...).
Here you state:
melfn wrote: A lot of effort actually.
It took me three evenings to install Debian on this laptop (see the previous posts) and there is no guarantee that the system will work with the new setting. Also in this period I have deadlines and other stuff so I cannot take the risk of making a fresh install now.
I would say... this sounds normally ... typically... like a production laptop...maybe you have another name for it, that's OK but does not change this situation. As... "Whats in a name..."....

Sorry I stop following you, this goes nowhere....
Good luck with solving your frankendebian/ broken system problems.

melfn
Posts: 34
Joined: 2016-09-23 20:41

Re: Debian 10 occasionally freezes after update from Debian

#35 Post by melfn »

andre@home wrote:
melfn wrote:I've never heard of production laptops before. Relax, it's just a laptop (not a server nor a commodity machine...).
Here you state:
melfn wrote: A lot of effort actually.
It took me three evenings to install Debian on this laptop (see the previous posts) and there is no guarantee that the system will work with the new setting. Also in this period I have deadlines and other stuff so I cannot take the risk of making a fresh install now.
I would say... this sounds normally ... typically... like a production laptop...maybe you have another name for it, that's OK but does not change this situation. As... "Whats in a name..."....
That's because this is the laptop I use for working and I cannot take the risk of not having it available for three days in case the upgrade/fresh install fails.
Now it is broken (in some sense) but at least it works.

Sorry I stop following you, this goes nowhere....
Good luck with solving your frankendebian/ broken system problems.
No problem.

Post Reply