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Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

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Islander
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Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#1 Post by Islander »

I'm trying to set up an old computer as a fileserver.
I'm using an old motherboard from 2004, and a 4 TB SATA-connected drive that's just a few years old.
However, my BIOS seems to report the drive size as 1801.8 GB. Does this mean I can't use the drive, or will Debian bypass any BIOS limitations once it's booted?

I've googled for drive size limitations, but there doesn't seem to be a known limitation at 1,8 TB. The closest seems to be the legacy BIOS limitation at 2.2 TB.

The BIOS reports the drive as:

Code: Select all

Device: Hard Disk
Vendor: ST4000DX001-1CE168
Size: 1801.8GBST4000DX001-1CE168
LBA Mode: Supported
Block Mode: 16Sectors
PIO Mode: 4
Async DMA: MultiWord DMA-2
Ultra DMA: Ultra DMA-6
S.M.A.R.T.: Supported
(Yes, BIOS appends the drive model string to the size string and reports both on the Size line.)

BIOS version:

Code: Select all

American Megatrends BIOS v02.58
Motherboard BIOS Version: 775Twins-HDTV BIOS P2.10
I've tried to install Debian 10.6 and 11.0 from DVD, and get intermittent errors. Sometimes it fails to detect the 4 TB drive. Sometimes it fails to detect the ATAPI DVD drive it just booted from. Sometimes it detects and installs everything but when it tries to boot from the 4 TB drive, it only shows a black screen with a blinking cursor.

Since the problem is intermittent, I suspect a hardware error, but I thought I'd rule out a compatibility problem before I scrap my motherboard.

I get error messages like this when I start the DVD installation:

Code: Select all

3.4147271 ahci 0000:00:1f.1: controller reset failed (0x80000001)
23.536864 ata3: SRST failed (errno=-16)
23.536864 ata3: SRST failed (errno=-16)

CwF
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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#2 Post by CwF »

Do yourself a favor and get a $20 ssd for the OS. Then when you open up that 4GB drive in gparted, you'll see the answer.

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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#3 Post by p.H »

Islander wrote: 2021-09-05 12:13 I'm using an old motherboard from 2004, and a 4 TB SATA-connected drive that's just a few years old.
However, my BIOS seems to report the drive size as 1801.8 GB. Does this mean I can't use the drive, or will Debian bypass any BIOS limitations once it's booted?
This may just be a display bug (most significant bit of the sector count is truncated).
Anyway the Linux kernel will bypass any BIOS limitations. However the boot process will still be bound to the BIOS limitations. This means that you must install anything needed to load the kernel and initramfs on partitions located within the limit. This includes GRUB's boot image and core image and /boot.

Also, a 4TB drive will require a GPT partition table. When installing GRUB for legacy BIOS boot (not EFI boot) on GPT, a 1-MB BIOS boot partition is strongly recommended. As stated above, this partition must be located within the BIOS limit, usually at the beginning of the disk.

Finally, some broken BIOS require that a DOS partition entry (even empty) in the MBR has the boot flag set, but the standard protective GPT partition entry does not. You can set it with fdisk -t dos or parted disk_set pmbr_boot which are both available as optional installer components in expert install.

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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#4 Post by Marie SWE »

Islander wrote: 2021-09-05 12:13 I'm trying to set up an old computer as a fileserver.
I'm using an old motherboard from 2004, and a 4 TB SATA-connected drive that's just a few years old.
However, my BIOS seems to report the drive size as 1801.8 GB. Does this mean I can't use the drive, or will Debian bypass any BIOS limitations once it's booted?
What is it for motherboard?
If it is an OEM computer what is the make and model?

I do agree with @CwF and @p.H you need a smaller boot disk at maximum of 2TB as you have old Legacy bios.. And also that you need to set GPT partition table to your 4TB secondary Drive as MBR has a 2TB limit or split it into 2x2TB partitions in MBR... that goes for windows too
Why make things complicated in life, if you can make it easier for yourself... Do it. ;o)
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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#5 Post by Islander »

Marie SWE wrote: 2021-09-05 14:37 What is it for motherboard?
ASRock 775Twins-HDTV. <https://www.asrock.com/mb/ATI/775Twins-HDTV>

I'll just put in an extra drive for booting, then. I have some old hard disks lying around that are too small for anything else.

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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#6 Post by CwF »

...I looked!? They should have included a built-in TV-Wonder chip!

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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#7 Post by p.H »

Marie SWE wrote: 2021-09-05 14:37 I do agree with @CwF and @p.H you need a smaller boot disk
I did not say that. You may use a smaller boot disk, but you don't have to.
Marie SWE wrote: 2021-09-05 14:37 you need to set GPT partition table to your 4TB secondary Drive as MBR has a 2TB limit
If the drive is not going to be used for boot then you do not even need a partition table.
Marie SWE wrote: 2021-09-05 14:37 or split it into 2x2TB partitions in MBR
This is a hack. No usual partitioning tool will allow to do it (maybe sfdisk does). Above all, why on earth would one bother to do this instead of using GPT or no partition table ?

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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#8 Post by Marie SWE »

@p.H
How do you use a disk if you don't have a partitioning
Edit:
Without a partition table it's just RAW
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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#9 Post by p.H »

Just create a file system, an LVM physical volume, a RAID member or whatever type of contents you want in the entire drive.

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mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdb
pvcreate /dev/sdb
mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=raid1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/sdb /dev/sdc
...
"RAW" means nothing. It' just how Windows calls partition and disk formats it does not support.

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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#10 Post by Marie SWE »

I have never heard anyone use raid on a single 4TB disk... Raid1 needs two disks

Edit Forgot this
LVM physical volume still is a form of partition.. as dynamic disk in windows server still need a partition to specify file system and size
I'm a noobie in linux and i have only used hardware raid.. never software raid..
Last edited by Marie SWE on 2021-09-05 22:45, edited 2 times in total.
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df -h | grep > 20TiB
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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#11 Post by steve_v »

Islander wrote: 2021-09-05 12:13my BIOS seems to report the drive size as 1801.8 GB. Does this mean I can't use the drive, or will Debian bypass any BIOS limitations once it's booted?
That depends. Linux in general loads it's own drivers and doesn't use BIOS disk access, so most limitations can be circumvented as long as the boot sector itself can be found by the BIOS.
This was great back in the days of 500MB, 2GB, 32GB etc. limits, and should likewise do the trick for a 2TB BIOS limit provided you boot from something the BIOS understands (smaller drive, small partiton etc).
I say should, BIOSes are notorious for vendor-specific bugs and idiosyncrasies, so you'll likely have to suck it and see.

However...

Code: Select all

775Twins-HDTV
IME, many 775 and 771 boards use SATA chipsets that flat-out do not support drives over 2TB (1.8TiB). If that's the case, there's no way to fix it outside a firmware update for the controller or an add-in HBA.
I've had even very fancy Supermicro boards report >2TB disks as 1801GB (thanks ongoing MB vs MiB confusion), due to the (generally adaptec) controllers they use. You may be in a similar situation.
Unfortunately I can't find any detailed specs on the ULI chipset that board (apparently) uses, and the board itself seems kinda uncommon in general.

Hopefully this is not your problem, and it's just a motherboard BIOS limitation. In the latter case p.H has you covered. :)
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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#12 Post by p.H »

steve_v wrote: 2021-09-05 22:25 IME, many 775 and 771 boards use SATA chipsets that flat-out do not support drives over 2TB (1.8TiB)
I did not think about chipset hardware limitations, although I have seen such limitation in USB-SATA adapter chipsets, it affected Linux drivers too.
However there is no reason that a chipset has a size limit of 2 TB (1.8 TiB). Such components use binary arithmetics, not decimal.
Also note that 2 TB would be 1862.6 GiB, not 1801.8. As I wrote previously, I think the most significant bit of the sector count (2 TiB) has been truncated :

4 TB - 2 TiB = 4*10^12 - 2*2^40 = 1801 GB.

A 3-TB drive would bee seen as ~1 TB.

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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#13 Post by steve_v »

p.H wrote: 2021-09-06 11:16there is no reason that a chipset has a size limit of 2 TB (1.8 TiB). Such components use binary arithmetics, not decimal.
Indeed... Unless it implements some kind of RAID, and the limit is in it's firmware. I've definitely seen a 2TB limit on some adaptec HBAs (both PCI and onboard), and since I can't find any specs on the chipset in question I thought I'd throw it out there.
I don't recall the exact number and I'm not going to reinstall the hardware in question to check, but I'm fairly sure my 3TB drives were detected as 1.8something TB too.
p.H wrote: 2021-09-06 11:162 TB would be 1862.6 GiB, not 1801.8. As I wrote previously, I think the most significant bit of the sector count (2 TiB) has been truncated
Yeah, that makes sense. I was entirely too lazy to do the math TBH.
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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#14 Post by pcalvert »

This is the simplest solution I can think of:

First of all, use a GPT partition table. Then create four partitions:

1. An unformatted 1 MB BIOS boot partition (type ef02).
2. A 25 to 50 GB partition for the system (that's plenty of space for a file server).
3. A suitably-sized swap partition.
4. A fourth partition that uses the remainder of the HDD. This partition will be used for data.

If the problem is just a BIOS limitation, then this should work. If the problem is some other hardware issue, then it may not.

Phil
Last edited by pcalvert on 2021-09-08 21:50, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#15 Post by p.H »

A 1-MB unformatted BIOS boot partition at the beginning of the drive is recommended for GRUB on GPT. Without it, GRUB's core image will be vulnerable to filesystem block reordering.

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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#16 Post by Islander »

steve_v wrote: 2021-09-06 13:22
p.H wrote: 2021-09-06 11:16there is no reason that a chipset has a size limit of 2 TB (1.8 TiB). Such components use binary arithmetics, not decimal.
Indeed... Unless it implements some kind of RAID, and the limit is in it's firmware.
As a matter of fact, this motherboard does have RAID built-in.

I put in a second drive to install Debian on, and use the 4 TB only for data. It seems to work fine now.

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Re: Using 4 TB disk with old motherboard.

#17 Post by pcalvert »

p.H wrote: 2021-09-08 07:51 A 1-MB unformatted BIOS boot partition at the beginning of the drive is recommended for GRUB on GPT. Without it, GRUB's core image will be vulnerable to filesystem block reordering.
Thanks. I totally forgot about that.
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