Will Lenny release without NVIDIA?

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Telemachus
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#21 Post by Telemachus »

AdrianTM wrote:That's pretty much it.
You're kidding, right? If you do exactly what you said, the Nvidia script will try to bail out since the default version of gcc in Lenny (now 4.3.1) doesn't match the version of gcc that built Lenny's default kernel (4.2.4, I think). I'm hoping that the kernel actually released with Lenny (2.6.26 is the target, I think) will fix this problem, but so far as I know it hasn't been fixed yet. The script won't run cleanly on an untweaked Lenny system.

So, at the start, you would need to install gcc-4.2 and run "export CC=/usr/bin/gcc-4.2" or ignore the warning in the Nvidia script. Even if you did one of those things, the module build won't work on many systems because of various problems with the kernel. In last few months, it seems to me that questions and problems about this issue have tripled here. Some of those people may have made mistakes, but I doubt all of them did.

Right now Lenny users have to pick from three bad options:

(1) Use the nv or vesa driver. This is fine for 2D on some systems. On other systems, it leaves video unworkable, even for 2D. (On my desktop, for example, only vesa works at all, and it draws the screen too far to the left. The main part of a default Gnome menu (top panel, far left) and the "Show Desktop" icon (bottom panel, far left) were invisible the first time I installed both Ubuntu and (later) Debian. An interesting challenge for a newbie.)
(2) Mix Sid and Lenny in your sources and try the Debian way. If you don't have a legacy card this seems to work pretty well as far as I can tell, but many people don't want to mix in unstable.
(3) Use a "pure" Lenny system and use the Nvidia binary script. A lot of us don't like this on ideological grounds. Some people won't do it no matter what, some of us only with reluctance. Either way, as I said above, it only begins to solve your problem since there are a number of "gotchas" involved in using their script.
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AdrianTM
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#22 Post by AdrianTM »

I don't know about Lenny but in Sid I simply used gcc 4.1 and that worked fine. For what I know the kernel is still built with 4.1 but that's a trivial thing, change the default gcc, compile Nvidia drivers and you are good to go.
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Telemachus
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#23 Post by Telemachus »

AdrianTM wrote:I don't know about Lenny but in Sid I simply used gcc 4.1 and that worked fine. For what I know the kernel is still built with 4.1 but that's a trivial thing, change the default gcc, compile Nvidia drivers and you are good to go.
Sorry: you're right about the gcc version (4.1 not 4.2). For whatever reason, things are not always that simple in Lenny right now. I'm actually fine (I compile my own kernel), but my point is simply that many people are having a hard time. Maybe more importantly, it will be an interesting statement if Lenny releases without Debian-style support (m-a a-i etc.) for Nvidia. It will also, I think, be a statement by accident or default. That is, they haven't decided on principle, "No more Debian-style support for Nvidia" - the timing is just off.
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#24 Post by AdrianTM »

but my point is simply that many people are having a hard time.
People who can't compile nvidia driver can use something easier... like Ubuntu... problem solved.
Ubuntu hate is a mental derangement.

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Telemachus
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#25 Post by Telemachus »

AdrianTM wrote:
but my point is simply that many people are having a hard time.
People who can't compile nvidia driver can use something easier... like Ubuntu... problem solved.
Rickh is that you?

More seriously, I also care about the statement it makes for Debian.
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#26 Post by AdrianTM »

It makes the statement that Debian doesn't care about 40% of its users?

*disclaimer 87.6% of statistics are invented on the spot.
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Telemachus
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#27 Post by Telemachus »

AdrianTM wrote:It makes the statement that Debian doesn't care about 40% of its users?
Even if the number were right, that's not how I would interpret it. Thanks for your valuable input.
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#28 Post by AdrianTM »

How would you interpret it, I'm curious.
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Gomer_X
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#29 Post by Gomer_X »

AdrianTM wrote:
but my point is simply that many people are having a hard time.
People who can't compile nvidia driver can use something easier... like Ubuntu... problem solved.
The problem is that the Nvidia driver won't compile against the Debian kernel because it is Xen enabled.

Nvidia may have fixed their code by now, but I haven't heard anything.

I'm not sure why Debian needs to ship all Xen enabled kernels, but their attitude is "oh well, Nvidia needs to fix their code." Not a user ignorance or stupidity problem.

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#30 Post by AdrianTM »

Gomer_X wrote: The problem is that the Nvidia driver won't compile against the Debian kernel because it is Xen enabled.

Nvidia may have fixed their code by now, but I haven't heard anything.

I'm not sure why Debian needs to ship all Xen enabled kernels, but their attitude is "oh well, Nvidia needs to fix their code." Not a user ignorance or stupidity problem.
Would that be true for Sid kernels too? I haven't had this problem. In the list of packages I see that Xen enabled kernels have "xen" in their name, maybe you got the wrong kernel.
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#31 Post by Gomer_X »

AdrianTM wrote:Would that be true for Sid kernels too? I haven't had this problem. In the list of packages I see that Xen enabled kernels
have "xen" in their name, maybe you got the wrong kernel.
See above. One of the solutions is to use packages from Sid, which doesn't have this problem.

All 2.6.25 kernels in Lenny are Xen enabled. Pick any nvidia thread for the details. It's been discussed.

The best solution seems to be to avoid the nvidia proprietary drivers. It is the path I've chosen.

In other news, Intel will be manufacturing graphics chips for use in discrete graphics cards starting 2009 or 2010.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10005391-64.html
I'll be standing in that line when the time comes. :)

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#32 Post by AdrianTM »

All 2.6.25 kernels in Lenny are Xen enabled.
Debian should release kernels that are not xen enabled. Period.
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Gomer_X
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#33 Post by Gomer_X »

AdrianTM wrote:
All 2.6.25 kernels in Lenny are Xen enabled.
Debian should release kernels that are not xen enabled. Period.
Feel free to notify the responsible parties of your opinion. :)

Nvidia should open their code. Microsoft should play nice. My wife should treat me like the king of the universe... And then there's reality, which is where I live.

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actionM
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#34 Post by actionM »

AdrianTM wrote:What is the problem can't you install the driver from there: http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us

Is really not that hard...
1. you need kernel headers installed and linked to /usr/src/linux
2. stop the X
3. run installer.

That's pretty much it.
Have you used Lenny lately you ignorant bastard?
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#35 Post by AdrianTM »

actionM wrote:Have you used Lenny lately you ignorant bastard?
No, you analphabet. I'm a Sid user, and thus I have the privilege of having non-xen kernels (if I decide to use stock kernel that is)
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#36 Post by actionM »

LOL, ummm speaking of ignorance. Can I just compile my kernel in Lenny to not use Xen?
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#37 Post by AdrianTM »

actionM wrote:LOL, ummm speaking of ignorance. Can I just compile my kernel in Lenny to not use Xen?
I don't see what can stop you.
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infinitycircuit
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#38 Post by infinitycircuit »

It seems like they will make it in:

http://www.khensu.org/index.php?catid=3&blogid=1
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s3a
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#39 Post by s3a »

do those exist in PCI express (I would really rather not have much graphics card hobbled by PCI and most current boards don't have AGP).
ATI RADEON X600 PRO

It is cheap. It is PCI-Express. It can handle games about the generation of Doom 3. The open source driver has good 2D and 3D support for it (or so I've read).

hkoster1
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#40 Post by hkoster1 »

It seems that the latest nvidia source package has now landed in testing/Lenny, so there's a good chance that it will also be released when Lenny goes stable. It compiled fine against the 2.6.26 kernel in Sid.
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