Debian not ready for modern hardware...

[Telemachus]

GNU.wasabi: I wasn't insulting you, and I said nothing one way or another about your audio skills. I was simply saying that, given your age, you're unlikely to have much more experience in Linux than everybody since many of the folks on the board are far older than that.

Given how excitable you are, I probably should have kept my mouth shut. I'll do that now.

[GNU.Wasabi]

GNU.wasabi: I wasn't insulting you, and I said nothing one way or another about your audio skills. I was simply saying that, given your age, you're unlikely to have much more experience in Linux than everybody since many of the folks on the board are far older than that.

Given how excitable you are, I probably should have kept my mouth shut. I'll do that now.

Don't! I think it takes a real intelligent person to understand someone like me. Thank you.

@julian67: Even if the document is 4 years old, NOTHING has changed in functionality. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT I TRIED THE S/PDIF OUTPUT AND IT DID NOT WORK AND SAID THAT MY INTEGRATED AUDIO CONTROLLER WORKED?! If you don't believe me then download the source code for the snd-mia driver and you'll see NO implementation for non-audio S/PDIF support.

@ALL YOU IDIOTS: Go buy the ECHO MiaMIDI sound card and tell me if you get Dolby Digital passthrough working. If yes I will happily donate my sub five grand Pro Audio system. If you are not an idiot don't get offended by this.

BOTTOM LINE: If you don't even have the money for the ECHO MiaMIDI then shut up. Honestly just shut up. This thread is not about the MiaMIDI anyway so cry elsewhere.

[julian67]

GNU.wasabi: I wasn't insulting you, and I said nothing one way or another about your audio skills. I was simply saying that, given your age, you're unlikely to have much more experience in Linux than everybody since many of the folks on the board are far older than that.

Given how excitable you are, I probably should have kept my mouth shut. I'll do that now.

Don't! I think it takes a real intelligent person to understand someone like me. Thank you.

@julian67: Even if the document is 4 years old, NOTHING has changed in functionality. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT I TRIED THE S/PDIF OUTPUT AND IT DID NOT WORK AND SAID THAT MY INTEGRATED AUDIO CONTROLLER WORKED?! If you don't believe me then download the source code for the snd-mia driver and you'll see NO implementation for non-audio S/PDIF support.

@ALL YOU IDIOTS: Go buy the ECHO MiaMIDI sound card and tell me if you get Dolby Digital passthrough working. If yes I will happily donate my sub five grand Pro Audio system. If you are not an idiot don't get offended by this.

BOTTOM LINE: If you don't even have the money for the ECHO MiaMIDI then shut up. Honestly just shut up. This thread is not about the MiaMIDI anyway so cry elsewhere.

You were supporting your position with documentation 4 years old. A lot changes in 4 years. I didn't question your ability or knowledge or experience, I didn't claim you were wrong, I just suggested it's worth re-examining if your info is so old. I revisited these issues with my sound card occasionally and eventually the day came when it was finally fully supported. That's all. I wasn't rude to you in any way, or provocative, only civil and matter of fact. You could try that one day.

But with all the experience, expertise (self-proclaimed) and knowledge at your disposal you bought a sound card despite the manufacturer and ALSA documenting that it won't support a feature you actually need, and now you troll the board screaming about it in every thread that's even marginally relevant. Who needs to insult you when we can just sit back and watch the show?

[gnudude]

... just sit back and watch the show?

I got the popcorn....

[GNU.Wasabi]

despite the manufacturer and ALSA documenting that it won't support a feature you actually need

That's not true. I bought the card basing on the fact there was an ALSA driver: http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index. ... orporation and that the sound card supports the feature. It is at least implemented in both Mac and Windows drivers and documented in the SDK the vendor provides, but for some reason it's not implemented in the ALSA driver.

Later when I wanted to playback my first Dolby Digital stream, the system would give an error. So after Googling I found out about that website and then read there's no non-audio S/PDIF support. I didn't even check how old that document is, but if it really is 4 years then it is very slow progress on that driver. I had the latest ALSA installed as I had to compile it due to the required firmware. To be precise the error was that the S/PDIF device wouldn't accept anything besides PCM output. I have tried the same procedure with my onboard audio controller and it would work fine.

I do not have anything to worry about though as I already got paid for the authoring job. I don't give a crap to what you guys do with Linux but it ultimately failed to provide the functionality I required. Notice that the vendor does provide an open GPL licensed SDK and now comes out that 4 years is not enough time to implement something this simple. I say simple even if I don't know how to program low level code but compared to sampling rate support implementation, Dolby Digital passthrough is just an extra flag that needs to be enabled if I'm not wrong.

[gnudude]

...but it ultimately failed to provide the functionality I required.

yea, I thought my car provided speed control....then I learned it didnt....damn that car....

[Telemachus]

yea, I thought my car provided speed control....then I learned it didnt....damn that car....

And that's why people keep saying that your car isn't ready for the highway, right?

[gnudude]

err....yea....I was just about to add that to my post....yea...so there...yea...

[GNU.Wasabi]

Are you two by any chance friends in /bin/realworld ?

[kimsrk]

Debian is very close to ready, I can only hope open sorce finds a viable business model so it can flourish in this capitalistic society. My hardware has all worked out of box on a new rig with the exception of a built in camera. No complaints, once you know how to use it, debian is solid, fast and stable...

[edbarx]

I am tempted to believe, that Debian's policy, not to include proprietary drivers in its repositories, is actually holding it back.

Are such policies offering a service or a disservice?

[BioTube]

@kimsrk:
Competition drives prices down to marginal cost. FOSS has simply reached this point.

@edbarx:
The DFSG is the very core of Debian. Otherwise we'd just be... Ubuntu.

[Lavene]

I am tempted to believe, that Debian's policy, not to include proprietary drivers in its repositories, is actually holding it back.

Are such policies offering a service or a disservice?

Linux users are a strange breed indeed. We tout freedom, freedom, freedom, view sourcecode, change sourcecode, share share, free free. It's the most important thing!!! Never for get, never forget!

Unless... of course... it's a bit inconvenient...

[edbarx]

Linux users are a strange breed indeed. We tout freedom, freedom, freedom, view sourcecode, change sourcecode, share share, free free. It's the most important thing!!! Never for get, never forget!

Unless... of course... it's a bit inconvenient...

It is clear that you misunderstood my post. I did not intend to complain about the way Debian enforces its policies; I only intended to say what is clearly obvious. Lavene, usually people do not write drivers themselves. Maybe, they may try to write a custom program for themselves, but a hardware driver?

I did not say that free and open source programs, as opposed to hardware drivers, do not make a difference from a user's standing point, but that the lack of straightforward access of proprietary drivers may be hindering Debian.

At the end, I hope you aknowledge that in the 21st century, there is a basic right known as, freedom of expression.

[gnudude]

...but that the lack of straightforward access of proprietary drivers may be hindering Debian.

If debians goal is to be free of proprietary drivers then it would seem to be furthering Debian rather than hindering Debian. It may be hindering users.....that want them....

At the end, I hope you aknowledge that in the 21st century, there is a basic right known as, freedom of expression.

yea, Lavene just expressed herself...

[edbarx]

yea, Lavene just expressed herself...

You know that Lavene's post was more than just that. It's useless to act the fool's part.

[Lavene]

The way I see it:
The lack of proprietary drivers hinders Debian in the way the lack of violence hindered Gandhi.

And as long the main goal is free software, and hence try to convince the HW makers to release free drivers, providing non-free drivers is counter productive. Debian goal is NOT to conquer the world by any means possible. Debians goal is the Debian policy.

[edbarx]

The way I see it:
The lack of proprietary drivers hinders Debian in the way the lack of violence hindered Gandhi.

Honestly, a very nice expression. Debian's policies, although misunderstood by many, should in the long term, deliver a useful message for future generations, that is, totally free software is possible.

[irony]

The lack of proprietary drivers hinders Debian in the way the lack of violence hindered Gandhi.

Yesssss....

When I first started with linux a few years back a lack of proprietary drivers in Ubuntu would have meant that I would still be using Windows.

[jheaton5]

I support the non-use of proprietary hardware drivers in Debian. But I could not begin to write my own custom drivers, so I have to download and compile the nasty ole drivers myself. It would be a good idea for the Debian developers to write open source drivers. Admittedly, there is a lot of hardware out there.

Question: I use iwlwifi for my intel wireless card. Is that an open source driver or a proprietary driver? I got it from a Debian repository, non-free, I think. Did I just answer my own question?