Desktops for the intelligent

[LeeE]

I switched to KDE 3 when Gnome became too dumbed down but when I recently tried KDE 4 from squeeze on one of my testing systems I found that it was unusable over vnc and appeared to have caught a severe case of windozitis, with extraneous stuff splattered over the desktop and menus that seem to be designed for mobile phone screens - at least I think that's what I was looking at because like I say, it wouldn't render properly and was totally unusable.

Anyway, I now need to find a desktop system that'll just let me get on with my work without trying to turn it into some sort of life changing 'experience'.

Any suggestions? A couple of essentials: window sizes and positions need to be remembered between sessions, and the window manager needs to be able to maximise and minimise windows in the horizontal and vertical directions independantly i.e. so I can maximise vertically without maximising horizontally and visa-versa. It would be handy too, if I can just clone a HD for a new system, including the user settings without them getting upset when the hostname is then changed for the new system.

[chance2105]

At a loss on the maximize behavior. Actually... I find here a plugin in Compiz that is advertised to do just what you want with the veritcal and horizontal maximizing ("maximumize" plugin). Compiz also remembers the locations of your windows across sessions ("Place Windows" plugin). So Gnome + Compiz, but pretty sure you lose VNC with that combination.

Is KDE in Lenny an option? Squeeze isn't released yet and you'll have security updates for a year for Lenny after Squeeze is released.

What other ideas do you have for an "intelligent" desktop?

Frankly, I remember trying KDE years ago and loving it, but over time, Gnome has developed doing "the right thing" the vast, vast majority of the time. I futz so little with my desktop anymore people request their Windows computers switched to Debian after seeing mine. The most configuration I do is to configure compiz to my liking.

There's always .. flux, awesome, black..

[Coco]

I have four letters for you my friend. Xfce. Enough said.

[smallchange]

I use KDE 4. Are you impugning my intelligence?

[AMLJ]

The is no desktop for the intelligent...

I have almost every window manager and desktop environment installed, and I think GNOME is the best for me at the moment, but I try other things too. sometimes.

You should do the same, install some, and see which one you like more...

There are different window managers and desktop environments, not because some people are intelligent and some aren't, but because people like and want different things.
But I think %90 of GNU/Linux users are intelligent, and %99 of Debian GNU/Linux users are intelligent!

[MeanDean]

I use KDE 4. Are you impugning my intelligence?

cant impugn whatcha aint got figuritively speaking of course

[snowpine]

Give Fluxbox a twirl if you're looking for something "that'll just let me get on with my work without trying to turn it into some sort of life changing 'experience'."

[debil]

ed, is it you?

Harmless jokes aside, try out stuff (DE's, WM's) and see how you like them. There are few threads like this already and I'm not going to beat a dead horse.

*Goes back lurking and starts waiting for the py_mem.py listings*

[MeanDean]

icewm

Code: Select all

root@debian:/home/user# ps_mem.py 
 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program 

132.0 KiB +  61.0 KiB = 193.0 KiB	acpid
160.0 KiB +  37.5 KiB = 197.5 KiB	init
192.0 KiB +  13.0 KiB = 205.0 KiB	dhclient3
168.0 KiB +  59.0 KiB = 227.0 KiB	xinit
368.0 KiB +  33.0 KiB = 401.0 KiB	udevd
324.0 KiB + 112.0 KiB = 436.0 KiB	x-session-manag
348.0 KiB + 122.5 KiB = 270.5 KiB	getty (2)
352.0 KiB + 131.0 KiB = 483.0 KiB	login
  1.6 MiB + 576.5 KiB =   2.1 MiB	icewm
  6.1 MiB + 660.0 KiB =   2.7 MiB	xterm
  6.2 MiB + 790.0 KiB =   3.0 MiB	bash (2)
 12.5 MiB + 308.5 KiB =  12.8 MiB	Xorg
---------------------------------
                        24.6 MiB
=================================

 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program 

[LeeE]

Thanks for your comments folks.

Re the intelligent maximise/minimise feature: once upon a time, long, long ago, when the Sawfish window manager was known as Sawmill (back when I was running slink, iirc), it used to allow you to not only independently maximise/minimise horizontally and vertically but it would also allow you to maximise/minimise up to any adjacent windows i.e. the window could maximise into the available area only, without covering any other windows, which was nice, but that particular feature seemed the get dropped when its name was changed.

By the time that Metacity replaced Sawfish as the default Gnome window manager*, Metacity too allowed independent maximisation and minimisation of windows, just like Sawfish, and like Sawfish too, you could easily configure it to background/foreground windows with a single mouse click. *The Sawfish WM kept track of window sizes and positions by registering a window ID which, for some of the Gnome Apps, such as the Gnome Terminal, was unique every time the app was started. The result was that the Sawfish window history got broken for these apps and the Sawfish window history config file would grow larger every time one of these apps were started, as a new unique entry was added for them.

The latest version of Metacity seems to have dropped these two features though, or at least I couldn't find them with any of the themes I tried, so I'm currently back to using Sawfish on the new Gnome systems I've recently set up (there seems little point in setting them up as KDE systems, if that's not going to work over vnc when I eventually upgrade them to Squeeze, and most of my systems are just render nodes and the only time I log into them is for housekeeping, so I've added the appropriate window history lines back into the Sawfish config and put up with periodically tidying up the Sawfish window history file by removing the redundant window entries).

I've tried a few other session/window managers but had problems with them, one way of another, so I might end up running just a Sawfish only session i.e without starting either Gnome or KDE, and with no panel at all, but then that would mean having to clear a bit of desktop to be able to access Sawfish's pop-up menus every time I need to start something...

What I don't understand though is why some of the features I've been talking about seem to have been dropped.

[MeanDean]

so you do have a question....cool

The way to really configure metacity is by using gconf-editor. I am not sure it will provide what you want but that is certainly the place to check. A quick glance shows (empty) bindings for max/min horiz/vert settings...

[LeeE]

I use KDE 4. Are you impugning my intelligence?

That wasn't my intention: if it works for you then it's an intelligent choice for you, but as it doesn't work over vnc it's not an intelligent choice for me.

[LeeE]

so you do have a question....cool

The way to really configure metacity is by using gconf-editor. I am not sure it will provide what you want but that is certainly the place to check. A quick glance shows (empty) bindings for max/min horiz/vert settings...

You can keep the sarcasm but thanks for the suggestion about gconf-editor.

[debil]

icewm

Code: Select all

root@debian:/home/user# ps_mem.py 
<snip>

Sincere thank you

[BioTube]

If KDE 3.5 works for you, you can always try Trinity.

[dbbolton]

Yeah, I like a desktop environment to reflect my own inflated sense of self-worth as well.

[LeeE]

Thank you very much BioTube - that looks very interesting. In fact, if the project survives it would be an ideal solution.

[AMLJ]

Hey... By the way, I tried Fluxbox and I like it... I mean, I had it installed, but today I used it a bit more, and I think it's really cool!

[Anzhr]

Fluxbox does what it is supposed to do and gets out of your way. Being able to configure it with flat files and a simple syntax is wonderful.

[mojoman]

icewm

Code: Select all

root@debian:/home/user# ps_mem.py 
 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program 

132.0 KiB +  61.0 KiB = 193.0 KiB	acpid
160.0 KiB +  37.5 KiB = 197.5 KiB	init
192.0 KiB +  13.0 KiB = 205.0 KiB	dhclient3
168.0 KiB +  59.0 KiB = 227.0 KiB	xinit
368.0 KiB +  33.0 KiB = 401.0 KiB	udevd
324.0 KiB + 112.0 KiB = 436.0 KiB	x-session-manag
348.0 KiB + 122.5 KiB = 270.5 KiB	getty (2)
352.0 KiB + 131.0 KiB = 483.0 KiB	login
  1.6 MiB + 576.5 KiB =   2.1 MiB	icewm
  6.1 MiB + 660.0 KiB =   2.7 MiB	xterm
  6.2 MiB + 790.0 KiB =   3.0 MiB	bash (2)
 12.5 MiB + 308.5 KiB =  12.8 MiB	Xorg
---------------------------------
                        24.6 MiB
=================================

 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program 

Damn, that's featherweight. Maybe we should start to call you LeanDean instead?

Seriously though, Xfce4 fits the OPs bill on most points I think (e.g. maximize horizontally or vertically) but it doesn't remember window placement (though it is supported by some apps).