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Not all Debian derivatives are equal

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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arochester
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Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#1 Post by arochester »

It is interesting to see that wattOS is back, now based on Debian 11, after 6 years unchanged. https://linuxiac.com/wattos-12-surprise ... nactivity/

wattOS does not have its own Repository. It is fully dependant on the Debian Repositories.

I have also looked at NakeDeb which similarly does not have its own Repository and depends on Debian. https://nakedeb.arpinux.org/index-en.html

Does anyone know of any other derivatives which depend so much on Debian?

True "derivative" or "slightly changed"?

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#2 Post by canci »

Arguably Devuan and all of its derivatives like Refracta.
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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#3 Post by donald »

arochester wrote: 2022-11-21 11:06 It is interesting to see that wattOS is back, now based on Debian 11, after 6 years unchanged. https://linuxiac.com/wattos-12-surprise ... nactivity/

wattOS does not have its own Repository. It is fully dependant on the Debian Repositories.

I have also looked at NakeDeb which similarly does not have its own Repository and depends on Debian. https://nakedeb.arpinux.org/index-en.html

Does anyone know of any other derivatives which depend so much on Debian?

True "derivative" or "slightly changed"?

The derivative tree across Linux is HUGE across several distributions. Slackware, Debian, Redhat, etc ...

The most recent map, linked because the image is huge: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 0_2021.svg

Debian tracks them as best we can: https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census

Most of them follow specific tracks for specific tasks as I understand it such as firewall, emulation, hardware, security, enterprise, clusters, and so on.

https://distrowatch.com/ is a good site to see them all from the major 'root/main' distributions, popularity there is based on user input (I believe) so it may not be super accurate.
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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#4 Post by Trihexagonal »

I've got 3 Kali GNU/Linux 2022.4 boxen that I use for daily drivers and Admin them just like I would if they were vanilla Debian.
I'm very happy with them and have several screenshots in the appropriate thread here.

I would say it was slightly changed for the same reason others would not.
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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#5 Post by arochester »

My original post was about derivative which DON'T have their own repositories. Kali Linux has its own Repository.

I was interested in derivatives which only used Debian repositories.

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#6 Post by artytux »

Hello @arochester

I've been using SpiralLinux for a few months now and everything in KDE works out of the box as they say.
No problems.
It's a user-friendly easy to use clean no extra bloat Debian with the codecs etc.

two reviews of SpiralLinux

https://itsfoss.com/spirallinux-review/

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issu ... 003#spiral


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Last edited by artytux on 2022-11-21 22:36, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#7 Post by el_koraco »

arochester wrote: 2022-11-21 11:06 I have also looked at NakeDeb which similarly does not have its own Repository and depends on Debian. https://nakedeb.arpinux.org/index-en.html
nakeDeb is a nice little spin on Debian, with sane and pretty defaults for a lightweight X environment. My only complaint is that arpinux uses connman, which I find unnecessary - systemd-networkd, iwd or just plain old e/n/i is much better if you don't like network manager. nakeDeb actually returned me to Debian after ten years of Ubuntu and Arch - I had completely forgotten how to use anything other than Gnome, I liked the default look of nakeDeb, installed it in a Gnome box, had some fun, got bored with fluxbox, fired up my old spectrwm knowledge, figured out that the Gnome Box was performing better than actual Gnome. Fast forward a couple of weeks and I was nuking the Arch install for Bullseye. Looking back on it, I have absolutely no idea what I was thinking in the past decade. I think it had something to do with wanting to try out the then new Gnome 3, SNS Syndrome really. If it hadn't been for arpinux, I would still be rebooting every other day and silly crap like that.

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#8 Post by cds60601 »

Siduction - they appear to have their own repos but certainly don't have the amount of packages that Debian does. I assume they rely on Debian's at some point.
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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#9 Post by sunrat »

cds60601 wrote: 2022-11-25 04:08 Siduction - they appear to have their own repos but certainly don't have the amount of packages that Debian does. I assume they rely on Debian's at some point.
siduction uses all debian unstable repos but have their "extras" repo which includes custom kernel, configs, a few utilities, and theming. I used it for many years but lately grew tired of the constant upgrades and occasional breakages same as pure Debian Unstable. I use Stable now. :wink:
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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#10 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

IMO all the derivatives of Debian are broken - in most cases their selling point is that they are based on Testing/Sid - so the most important property of the OS, that is: stability - is what they can't offer.

It's also "funny" that the Debian derivatives exists at all - by forking Debian, the creators of derivatives are admitting that they are unable to to create their own OS, or a stable distribution -> I'm recognizing only a single exception here: Devuan -> they have decided to make Debian free from broken systemd software, and IMO they are right - systemd is technically a broken software, especially in the aspect of quality and stability (and the Debian project is flawed, because it allows to be infiltrated by corporations -> RedHat in this case)

Anyway, I think that it would be better if people will join the efforts on fixing Debian bugs instead of creating low-quality derivatives which have naerly zero users and a tons of bugs, which are never resolved due to insufficient manpower.

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#11 Post by arochester »

all the derivatives of Debian are broken
creating low-quality derivatives which have naerly zero users and a tons of bugs, which are never resolved due to insufficient manpower.
Like MX Linux? I wonder what @stevepusser thinks of this?

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#12 Post by sunrat »

You know what they say about opinions - everyone has one! :mrgreen:
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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#13 Post by Fossy »

Apparently ( so to read on WWW ) some do not like systemd , I join the vast majority (?) who does not lose sleep over it .
My " debian stable " systems are running perfectly , this is not an opinion but a fact ...
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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#14 Post by cds60601 »

sunrat wrote: 2022-11-25 04:58
cds60601 wrote: 2022-11-25 04:08 Siduction - they appear to have their own repos but certainly don't have the amount of packages that Debian does. I assume they rely on Debian's at some point.
I used it for many years but lately grew tired of the constant upgrades and occasional breakages same as pure Debian Unstable. I use Stable now. :wink:
Interesting. No issues with older apps? I'm leaning towards stable myself. Can't rightfully come up a reason (app wise) to stay on Sid)
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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#15 Post by artytux »

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote: 2022-11-25 21:32 IMO all the derivatives of Debian are broken - in most cases their selling point is that they are based on Testing/Sid - so the most important property of the OS, that is: stability - is what they can't offer.
0Ooh Be nice what about SpiralLinux not based on Testing/Sid Huh um and Not Broken, Thank You

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#16 Post by vicshrike »

Got infected by the SNS syndrome mentioned above by el_koraco a year ago or so :roll: really stupid. Suddenly not long ago I found myself overwhelmed by frustration about it and returned to Debian stable. Yes, a derivative but I am not too picky about that.

No stress, no frustrations, just plain simple functionality. What was I thinking back then,insanity in the heat of the moment?

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#17 Post by el_koraco »

vicshrike wrote: 2022-11-26 08:17 No stress, no frustrations, just plain simple functionality. What was I thinking back then,insanity in the heat of the moment?
I think SNS really is insanity of some kind. We could all tell stories about why we switched away from Debian Stable, none of which really make any sense. I mean, I like all non Fedora distros, they all work well enough, but Debian is simply Debian.

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#18 Post by darry1966 »

Nothing wrong with MX Linux, use it every day.

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#19 Post by vicshrike »

el_koraco wrote: 2022-11-26 09:25 Debian is simply Debian.
A true and in my opinion one of very few certainties in the universe.

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Re: Not all Debian derivatives are equal

#20 Post by trinidad »

IMO all the derivatives of Debian are broken
The most attractive things about Debian are its precise packaging method, its large repository of packages created with that method, so it is obviously certain that gimmicky developers would spin new mutant OSs based on its solid system.
I'm recognizing only a single exception here: Devuan
I agree with you on this whole heartedly. My experinces with Devuan have been entirely trouble free.
Apparently some do not like systemd , I join the vast majority (?) who does not lose sleep over it .
I don't worry about systemd either and in fact find some of its capabilities quite useful and my three main systems are currently Debian gnome stable and old-stable, and I also like wayland for several reasons.
I've got 3 Kali GNU/Linux 2022.4 boxen that I use for daily drivers
You can do the same things with a Debian system but you won't get that cool dragon.

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