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[Discussion] how do you install

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lucyferu
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[Discussion] how do you install

#1 Post by lucyferu »

im not a veteran of the linux and im brand-new with debian.
i've had a couple of issue in the past with some apps/software and, sometimes, the fault has been given to the way i installed them.

however, i don't know if there is a best way or a preferred way and that's why im asking you.

as far as i know, stuff can be installed and/or just used with:
  • apt
  • flatpak
  • snap
  • appimage
what's your preferred way?
is there a best way?
is there any other way?


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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#3 Post by kent_dorfman766 »

disable anything that uses auto-download daemons. push updates are just a bad idea in a world full of bad ideas.

on Debian I use apt and synaptic

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#4 Post by lucyferu »

kent_dorfman766 wrote: 2023-01-26 21:09 disable anything that uses auto-download daemons.
what are those? the automatic updates you get for apps when you do a

Code: Select all

sudo apt update
?

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#5 Post by steve_v »

lucyferu wrote: 2023-01-26 18:16
  • apt
  • flatpak
  • snap
  • appimage
  • 8)
  • :|
  • :lol:
  • :|
lucyferu wrote: 2023-01-26 18:16 what's your preferred way?
is there a best way?
is there any other way?
Apt every time.
Best is entirely relative, they all have benefits and drawbacks.
Several. Almost as many as there are package managers and build systems if fact, though only a small subset are "supported" on debian.

lucyferu wrote: 2023-01-26 22:55what are those? the automatic updates you get for apps...
Presumably he's referring to unattended-upgrades, apt-cron, or that ridiculous windows-esque auto-update-at-shutdown thing I have heard systemd/gnome does these days.
I've been using the first for well over a decade, and I've never had any problems whatsoever. As with any automation, it's up to the end-user to configure it sensibly.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#6 Post by Fossy »

lucyferu wrote: 2023-01-26 18:16 ....
what's your preferred way?
is there a best way?
is there any other way?
In retrospect, I am sorry to have responded to this, unfortunately in my opinion, yet another ridiculous topic.
Have then consistently deleted my comment
Last edited by Fossy on 2023-02-06 16:19, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#7 Post by lucyferu »

steve_v wrote: 2023-01-27 08:21
lucyferu wrote: 2023-01-26 18:16
  • apt
  • flatpak
  • snap
  • appimage
  • 8)
  • :|
  • :lol:
  • :|
if i read that properly, you think snap is bad and you don't have strong opinions on appimage and flatpak?
can you elaborate on that?

regarding apt, do you include the cases in which you have to download extra/external ppas?
i remember it being a thing on ubuntu, i dont know if it's the same on debian though.

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#8 Post by Bloom »

I use apt/apt-get/aptitude. I'm not a big fan of other package management systems like flatpak, snap of appimage. Why? Because they are not checked for embedded maliciousness as thoroughly as the Debian repos are. It's almost the same as the apps in Google Play. Any developer welcome, you can upload anything you like, we won't check jack. That is the way to steer Linux to a direction that's as insecure as a certain operating system from Redmond.

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#9 Post by NFT5 »

apt - occasionally other than at first boot of a freshly installed system.
Synaptic - my preferred method, but only with apt-xapian-index.
gdebi - for deb packages from outside the Debian repos, e.g. a couple of MX tools that I find useful and, of course, Virtualbox direct from Oracle.
Flatpak - I resisted for a long time but I do have two packages (Pinta and BalenaEtcher) now and they're used regularly. If they came in deb I'd prefer that, but in these cases, I don't get that choice.
Discover - for a few KDE package updates that don't show in Synaptic for some reason.

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#10 Post by el_koraco »

apt and pip for one CLI application

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#11 Post by None1975 »

I only use apt.
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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#12 Post by lucyferu »

NFT5 wrote: 2023-01-27 10:58 apt-xapian-index.
what is that?

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#13 Post by None1975 »

lucyferu wrote: 2023-01-27 13:32 what is that?
This is a tool to maintain a Xapian index of Debian package information in /var/lib/apt-xapian-index, and axi-cache, a command line search tool that uses the index.

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axi-cache
allows one to search packages very quickly, and it also interfaces with the shell command line completion in a smart way, providing context-sensitive keyword and tag suggestions even before the search command is actually run.

Code: Select all

update-apt-xapian-index
allows plugins to be installed in /usr/share/apt-xapian-index to index all sorts of extra information, such as Debtags tags, popcon information, package ratings and anything else that would fit.

The index generated by

Code: Select all

update-apt-xapian-index
is self-documenting, as it contains an autogenerated README file with information on the index layout and all the data that can be found in it.
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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#14 Post by fabien »

None1975 wrote: 2023-01-27 17:16This is a tool to maintain a Xapian index of Debian package information in /var/lib/apt-xapian-index, and axi-cache, a command line search tool that uses the index.
The downside is that commands like

Code: Select all

$> aptitude search "?exact-name(lha)"
v   lha                                                                                            -
$> aptitude search "?provides(?exact-name(lha))"
p   jlha-utils                                                                                     - command-line lzh archiver written in Java                                                                
p   lhasa                                                                                          - lzh archive decompressor
don't work anymore when apt-xapian-index is installed. I don't know why. It's probably worth opening a bug.

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#15 Post by steve_v »

lucyferu wrote: 2023-01-27 10:05can you elaborate on that?
Appimage and flatpak are fairly nonintrusive, but also unnecessary when one has a perfectly good package manager (i.e. apt). They're slower to start up than natively installed applications, don't get the same security and reliability auditing the debian repos do, and they bloat disk and memory requirements. Aside from that, they get a solid "meh, why does this even exist?" from me.
Snap has all the same problems, and is also tied to a non-free and non-free-software-promoting "store" API, requires a local daemon, is heavily entangled with the systemd kraken, and pollutes mtab with zillions of loopback devices. Worst of all worlds IMO.

The only real reasons I can see for using any of them are:
* Upstream doesn't provide packages and is too slack (or too suspect) to engage with the debian maintainers to get things tested and included the traditional way, and the user is too lazy to compile the software themselves.
* The software in question does not provide source code, or its build system is so convoluted that it might as well not provide source code for the purposes of actually building a working binary locally.
* It's so untrustworthy that you feel you need isolate it with the (questionable at best IMO) sandboxing these systems provide. There are several other ways to do this of course, but the real answer is just not installing dodgy software.
* It's so buggy and unstable that you need patches and updates every week, which also ties into #1 since the debian maintainers have standards.

lucyferu wrote: 2023-01-27 10:05regarding apt, do you include the cases in which you have to download extra/external ppas?
PPAs are, at least under that moniker, an Ubuntu concept. There are obviously external repos for Debian, but I have used such only very, very rarely. For the hypothetical must-have app that's not in the repos, I'll generally just build that stuff myself rather than adding some mystery repo to my sources.
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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#16 Post by cds60601 »

dpkg is another option

And for those that prefer using source, there is always building and installing that way. For folks that are new to Linux (and Debian) I would say to stay away from source based installs.
Once you have built up knowledge and confidence, attempt from the source that is provided by Debian and other trusted sources.
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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#17 Post by None1975 »

fabien wrote: 2023-01-27 20:56 don't work anymore when apt-xapian-index is installed. I don't know why. It's probably worth opening a bug.
Yes you are right. And I have the same problem. I should look deeper into that. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#18 Post by fabien »

None1975 wrote: 2023-02-01 14:13Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
I don't think so. I said I don't know why it doesn't work, however I can speculate that virtual packages are not indexed due to their very nature.

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#19 Post by lucyferu »

does anyone have experience with building from source? has that given you problems?

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Re: [Discussion] how do you install

#20 Post by hannu »

My first choice is always a binary from Debian's repo. The one program different from that in my Debian 11 Mate desktop installation is Kdenlive. I have for years got my Kdenlive from Kdenlive as an appimage. Works well, only 200MB, and starts and runs as fast as a native binary.
I have played with Flatpak quite a bit with a secondary computer. Just a couple of programs and your /var/lib/flatpak has bloated to several gigabytes. Fedora installation even puts system files in your /var/lib/flatpak.
I am sure somebody like Flatpak, because it could be less work for packaging the distro. For end user, I don't see any benefit, it uses disk space like a drunken sailor for apps that start slow.

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