[Discussion] kernel manager, update manager, repository manager, driver manager: Why not?

[solrak]

Hello everyone. I'm just a normal user.
In Debian there are many packages, but there are certain things that I would like to find.
If a program is already made and works well, why not have it?

I wish I could have the Linux Mint update manager (mintupdate), it's a great application. Includes kernel and repository manager. It can do many things, It's wonderful. By now I think Debian should have a kernel manager.
We could also include a driver manager like the mintdrivers manager. Why not have it?
Or a PRIME-profiles package working.

I have a Lenovo Legion i5 Pro 16 and an Nvidia 3070.
I installed Debian 11 and then upgraded to Debian Testing with non-free non-free-firmware repositories enabled and everything works fine. All necessary drivers are installed. The system is very fast and stable.

It's crazy how Ubuntu 20.04 works fine (Linux Mint 20.3) and Ubuntu 22.04 can't even be installed.
Ubuntu is full of bugs. I still haven't been able to install it and get it working. I think if you have an old machine it works fine, but if you have a relatively new PC there are problems.
Errors starting, installation errors, etc. The first time I tried to install Ubuntu 22.04.2 I had to reinstall the Secure Boot keys to the factory state.
Although I must say that everyone has their own experience. There are users who are very happy.

It's funny how Debian Testing with non-free and non-free-firmware works without problems, and with the latest Nvidia drivers. And Ubuntu 22.04 has been released for a year now and it still crashes.

Ubuntu 22.04 is full of critical bugs. There are Ubuntu or Kubuntu users with the same problems.

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/sli ... stall.html



If Debian includes these packages in its repositories, it would win over a large number of users and users like me would be happier.

Why not include it?
I don't have much knowledge, but it seems something relatively simple and that in my opinion would contribute a lot to less advanced users.


I've certainly tried installing the linux mint update manager or driver manager by adding the ubuntu and linux mint repositories, but couldn't get it to work. Anyway.


I'm going to stay on Debian. And I can live with what we have, but I would like my prayers to be answered.


Greetings and thanks.

[Aki]

Hello,

Welcome to the forum.

Programs are added to Debian repositories on a volunteer base. There are multiple ways a program can land in Debian.

A way is to ask Debian developers/maintainers for packaging it. It is usually done filing a a "Request For Package" (RFP) [1] in the Debian Bug Tracking System (DBTS) . An interested Debian Developer can pick the request and build/upload the Debian package for the program.

Another way is driven by developers/maintainers themselves who "Intend To Package" a program (ITP) [2]. In this case, the developers/maintainers usually file an ITP bug report to the Debian Bug Tracking System.

Another way is through "Sponsorship" [3] :

Only approved members of the Debian project (Debian Developers) are granted the permission to upload software packages into the Debian distribution. Still a large number of packages is maintained by non-official developers. How do they get their work into Debian when they are not allowed to upload their own packages directly? By means of a process called sponsorship. Sponsorship means that a Debian Developer uploads the package on behalf of the actual maintainer. The Debian Developer will also check the package for technical correctness and help the maintainer to improve the package if necessary. Therefore the sponsor is sometimes also called a mentor.

You can search https://packages.debian.org (to verify if it's already packaged) and the DBTS [4] if it not packaged (if a RFP or ITP bug report has been sent) or search https://mentors.debian.net/ for packages that are in the process of asking for sponsorship.

Getting a program into the Debian repositories often takes time and effort due to policy requirements, but everyone can help according to their knowledge. Not all programs can be included in Debian for many reasons: some examples are licensing issues, uncompliance to Debian packaging policies, lack of cooperation from the program’s author, unmaintained programs, low quality of the program itself, dependencies on other programs affected by other issues, high complexity requiring a lot of manpower).

---
[1] https://wiki.debian.org/RFP
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/ITP
[3] https://mentors.debian.net/
[4] https://wnpp.debian.net//

[stevepusser]

MX Linux has essentially the same programs, I think, but they are limited to the MX/antiX ecosystem right now. I'm pretty sure MX Cleanup would work on Debian, and I think the repo manager (Repo Man) would work on Debian if you just disabled the MX repos in their tab. They are open source, so could be adapted for other distros if necessary.

MX Cleanup has options to clear various caches, and also to remove any installed kernels if not in use. Yes, they have been developed for exactly the same reasons you bring up, both to scratch the MX developers' itches and because of user requests. Maybe the Debian developers leave the hand-holding to derivative distros like MX?

[cds60601]

Easy answer: If you really want Debian and love Mint, Use the Debian version of Mint (LMDE) that is on the site.

[solrak]

A way is to ask Debian developers/maintainers for packaging it. It is usually done filing a a "Request For Package" (RFP) [1] in the Debian Bug Tracking System (DBTS) . An interested Debian Developer can pick the request and build/upload the Debian package for the program.

Thanks for answering. I think I'm going to do what you say, ask through the appropriate channel to introduce these packages into the repositories.


On the other hand, maybe I should have titled the post differently:

"I think Debian should have programs to manage kernels, drivers, an update manager and repositories."
Or,
“kernel manager, update manager, repository manager, driver manager”

Can you change it please?


I mean an update manager that doesn't depend on Discover or Gnome Software.
As I say, I have already reached the necessary knowledge to live without it, but there are many things that I still don't know how to do. And other users who do not know how to do it.

I have suggested the mintupdate program because it is the one I know best. And mintupdate has it all in one.
And the nice thing would be to have these programs on all branches of Debian.

[solrak]

Easy answer: If you really want Debian and love Mint, Use the Debian version of Mint (LMDE) that is on the site.

If someone wants to use SID or Testing?
And the nice thing would be to have these programs on all branches of Debian.


The LMDE 5 mintupdate program does not have a kernel manager than the Ubuntu-based version does. Maybe things will change in LMDE 6.
LMDE 5 doesn't have a driver manager either.
The Debian installation manager allows me to do other things.

I could not to go to testing from LMDE 5.
If I'm not mistaken LMDE is not made to pass to Debian Testing?

That's why I decided to go directly to Debian and learn from the mother distro at once.
Because I want to be able to install a new distro, with new drivers, as I mentioned, I can't continue installing new versions of Ubuntu or Linux Mint because they don't work for me.
And the problems that I have do not come from Linux Mint, they come from the base of the system that is Ubuntu. And I don't have the patience to wait to see when Ubuntu solves its problems and have to try a new installation periodically to verify it. And i do not want to use Ubuntu.

What I am suggesting is that Debian should have a kernel manager, a repository manager, an update manager and a driver manager. And mintupdate ubuntu based version has it all in one (Except the driver manager). And the good thing would be to have these programs in all branches of Debian.

And on the other hand I started learning to use Debian 5 months ago. It is now that a new version of LMDE 6 based on Debian 12 is about to come out, but that is now. For my modern hardware LMDE 5 was not an option, my choice was to install Debian 11 and jump to testing.


Also I have tried to install mintupdate on Debian. I don't have much knowledge but from what I've been able to experience, the mintupdate program installs mintsources which in turn replaces software-properties-common software-properties-gtk. And I think this is one of the reasons why you can't jump from LMDE 5 to Debian Testing.
And the problems begin, such as not being able to add repositories from the terminal. Which I have not been able to solve.

[solrak]

MX Linux has essentially the same programs, I think, but they are limited to the MX/antiX ecosystem right now. I'm pretty sure MX Cleanup would work on Debian, and I think the repo manager (Repo Man) would work on Debian if you just disabled the MX repos in their tab. They are open source, so could be adapted for other distros if necessary.

MX Cleanup has options to clear various caches, and also to remove any installed kernels if not in use. Yes, they have been developed for exactly the same reasons you bring up, both to scratch the MX developers' itches and because of user requests. Maybe the Debian developers leave the hand-holding to derivative distros like MX?

Hello, thanks for the suggestion.

I have already tested with MX Linux and with the MX Linux repositories. Although I will have to check what you say. Right now I already know how to manage the repositories manually, editing the sources.list, etc.
The most important would be a kernel and driver manager.

Do you know mintupdate manager? I think it is very accomplished. It has 3 in 1, update manager, kernel manager and repository manager, as well as other very practical utilities, such as installing missing repository keys.


MX Linux has many very good ideas, but I think it's not for me, maybe they still need to polish some things.


Also in the Debian 12 RC 3 version, the repository key files no longer work for me. It gives me an error message when doing "apt update" that I did not have before. I have copied them from another installation, before it worked and now it doesn't.


apt update:

W: http://security.debian.org/debian-secur ... /InRelease: The key(s) in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/mx21-archive-keyring.gpg are ignored as the file is not readable by user '_apt' executing apt-key.
W: http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/bookworm/InRelease: The key(s) in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/mx21-archive-keyring.gpg are ignored as the file is not readable by user '_apt' executing apt-key.
W: http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/book ... /InRelease: The key(s) in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/mx21-archive-keyring.gpg are ignored as the file is not readable by user '_apt' executing apt-key.
W: https://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ ... /InRelease: The key(s) in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/mx21-archive-keyring.gpg are ignored as the file is not readable by user '_apt' executing apt-key.

[Aki]

A way is to ask Debian developers/maintainers for packaging it. It is usually done filing a a "Request For Package" (RFP) [1] in the Debian Bug Tracking System (DBTS) . An interested Debian Developer can pick the request and build/upload the Debian package for the program.

[..] I think I'm going to do what you say, ask through the appropriate channel to introduce these packages into the repositories.

Please report the DBTS report number in the thread if you can.

On the other hand, maybe I should have titled the post differently:
"I think Debian should have programs to manage kernels, drivers, an update manager and repositories."
Or,
“kernel manager, update manager, repository manager, driver manager”
Can you change it please?

The forum software should allow you to do it by yourself.

[Random_Troll]

I have already tested with MX Linux and with the MX Linux repositories. Although I will have to check what you say. Right now I already know how to manage the repositories manually, editing the sources.list, etc.

MX Linux use their own version of systemd with an epoch added, which means that APT will prefer it over the Debian version. MX also has custom versions of GRUB that might cause some problems.

HoaS did post a "guide" for adding MX repositories to Debian but it is fundamentally flawed (IMO) and will lead to dependency problems in the long run. If you want to use MX Linux software use MX Linux.

[cds60601]

Easy answer: If you really want Debian and love Mint, Use the Debian version of Mint (LMDE) that is on the site.

If someone wants to use SID or Testing?
And the nice thing would be to have these programs on all branches of Debian.

Now see, this would have been good to know in your original post....
As to addressing your *whatever update manager. Look into Synaptic.
Synaptic can be installed in Stable, Testing, Sid and Experimental.

Maybe not the ideal thing to use for all your answers, but it does offer you much of what you want. I myself, am not a big fan since I normally run an update checker via DWM and it lets me know when I need to apply.

[lospala]

Hi tocayo
I'm a sort of newbie in Debian. I was also looking for update-manager and I discovered in synaptic two packages in Debian12 with Mate Desktop that do the same. (If I'm not wrong when I tested Lenny in 2009 with Gnome2 there was an update manager that was removed)
Try installing these two packages:

gnome-package-updater
package-update-indicator

Regards

[solrak]

A way is to ask Debian developers/maintainers for packaging it. It is usually done filing a a "Request For Package" (RFP) [1] in the Debian Bug Tracking System (DBTS) . An interested Debian Developer can pick the request and build/upload the Debian package for the program.

[..] I think I'm going to do what you say, ask through the appropriate channel to introduce these packages into the repositories.

Please report the DBTS report number in the thread if you can.

On the other hand, maybe I should have titled the post differently:
"I think Debian should have programs to manage kernels, drivers, an update manager and repositories."
Or,
“kernel manager, update manager, repository manager, driver manager”
Can you change it please?

The forum software should allow you to do it by yourself.

Debian Bug report logs - #1038403
mintUpdate manager for Debian

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... ug=1038403

Done. Thank you all for the help and suggestions.


Maybe I made a mistake and should have added "Request For Package"?, sorry.

[solrak]

Hi tocayo
I'm a sort of newbie in Debian. I was also looking for update-manager and I discovered in synaptic two packages in Debian12 with Mate Desktop that do the same. (If I'm not wrong when I tested Lenny in 2009 with Gnome2 there was an update manager that was removed)
Try installing these two packages:

gnome-package-updater
package-update-indicator

Regards

Hello!
Thanks for the suggestion.
It's a simple program and I like that, but that need would already be covered with Discover or Gnome Software. I use KDE, maybe if I used gnome, it would be necessary.
But, what I am suggesting is something else.

[solrak]

I have already tested with MX Linux and with the MX Linux repositories. Although I will have to check what you say. Right now I already know how to manage the repositories manually, editing the sources.list, etc.

MX Linux use their own version of systemd with an epoch added, which means that APT will prefer it over the Debian version. MX also has custom versions of GRUB that might cause some problems.

HoaS did post a "guide" for adding MX repositories to Debian but it is fundamentally flawed (IMO) and will lead to dependency problems in the long run. If you want to use MX Linux software use MX Linux.

Thanks for the warning. I will follow your advice.

My intention is not to have to mix repositories from other distributions.

[solrak]

Easy answer: If you really want Debian and love Mint, Use the Debian version of Mint (LMDE) that is on the site.

If someone wants to use SID or Testing?
And the nice thing would be to have these programs on all branches of Debian.

Now see, this would have been good to know in your original post....
As to addressing your *whatever update manager. Look into Synaptic.
Synaptic can be installed in Stable, Testing, Sid and Experimental.

Maybe not the ideal thing to use for all your answers, but it does offer you much of what you want. I myself, am not a big fan since I normally run an update checker via DWM and it lets me know when I need to apply.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I know synaptic and software-properties-gtk.
Indeed, as you say, it has several of the options I'm looking for, but I think that mintupdate is at a higher level to do what I'm looking for.
It also has the kernel manager, install missing keys, auto uninstall old kernels, auto update flatpack, etc.
In a single application you have an update manager, a repository manager, a kernel manager, 3 in 1.
And other very practical uses. That makes it an all in one, really good.

[lospala]

Thanks for the suggestion.
It's a simple program and I like that, but that need would already be covered with Discover or Gnome Software. I use KDE, maybe if I used gnome, it would be necessary.
But, what I am suggesting is something else.

I udertad what you eed. I use mate desktop and mixing that gnome app was not a problem. Neither it was a problem in the past with gnome desktop and K3B (a kde app) installed to burn cds.

Regards