( closed )Trying to install debian without all bloatware

[CwF]

Then I need to learn how to change identity's of the computers, I have never done that in linux... yet
So two packagelists.txt to install sounds as a bit easier

You are still in Windows.
Maybe just one package list. Keep in mind the package list does not track post install package configuration or user configurations.

There are really two primary identifiers to use.
Username and IP addresses.
You will find many other 'uniquifying candidates' that don't really matter. Oh ya, I made that up, so no translation for the uniquification processes. The machine itself is not tied to the OS like windows machines can be. Any number of clones can nest together on a network with only unique IP addresses. Even username can be the same. The domain can all be the same. It's really your choice on how to differentiate things, and not important to the system. Keep in mind users uid are actually group numbers, so 1001, 1002, so on.

/etc/mailname, aliases are notable if you use a mail agent.

The file system of clones has the same uuid, this is only a problem with more than one physical disk in a computer at the same time. If you'd take my suggestion and use a vm to create the master image, put all users on that image, configure however, then the ONLY identifier needed is the MAC address of the destination machine = which can be built in to master image with MAC matching rules. You keep this image up to date, back up user /home separately, and you always have a new install available in the time it takes to write out the image to a disk.
...and many more details to learn.

[Marie SWE]

If there had been a way to just edit the Linux install ISO it had probably bin done in a few hours..
Yes i know, and i'm pissed at Linux right now.. but this is Linux in a nutshell..

Come on, now. Were you born knowledgeable of Windows, or did you have to spend time learning it, at some point? It's a false comparison when you compare used time between something you are good at, and something you are a beginner at. (I would spend a lot more time accomplishing basic tasks in Windows.)

Nop, I learn ms-dos back in the late 80's and then windows from 3.11
But when i learn new things in windows nowadays, it is so much easier as i don't need code.. there is GUI tools for everything and it is much faster to learn a gui then learn wiki-commands and filehacking.. and with dyslexia it is hundreds times faster in a GUI as i need to check the spellings as the terminal don't have spellchecker and also normal spellchecker in document don't contains packages name and linux commands in the spellchecker list.

Everything is more complicated than it's needs to be.. It was the same when i learned how to set up a win-linux network with networkdrives.. it took weeks to learn that.. in windows i learned it within an hour a little more than 20years ago.

Do you think it's complicated to set up network drives? In Dolphin it's point and click. I already told you to use KDE if you like GUIs, but you chose XFCE and complaining. Why complain to others about the choice you made?

what? can Dolphin set up Networkdrives in fstab.
I really need to take a look if that is true.. then I can tip others, so thay don't need to edit Fstab to get a network hard drive

I did try to install Debian 11 KDE but it became KDE plasma instead and it has a lot of irritating flashy animated things. So i need to look if it's possible to install KDE without plasma or un install the flashy things.
I do have some gui-tools from KDE I have adopted in to Xfce.

I do longs for the next generation of Linux developer.. those born after 2010 that may bring in linux in the 21st century..

You crack me up

they say a good laugh extends the life.. so I'm happy to give you one.

.

No it not about save a we MegaBytes it is about having a clean system that is customized for you only and your hardware.. a system with less unnecessary software and function is a safer system.

Frankly, I'd just install the XFCE metapackage (KDE minimal, preferably) and remove whatever I didn't want from the metapackage. Time: 5 minutes after install in XFCE. 0 minutes in KDE. Removing desktop applications you never use (with no services attached to them) will probably not make your system any safer.

some CVE vulnerabilities is directly connected to programs/functions and with less on the system you don't use anyway, as less can get used.

really? a dist upgrade/rollup isn't that going to bring in that I'm trying to keep out?

Oh no, the evil developers are trying to make your system less safe.

No I just don't want them to change my system, that's why I never went over to win10 frome win7 and 8.. rollups change your settings, your customization and so on... If i had liked that concept i had stayed on windows.

[Marie SWE]

Then I need to learn how to change identity's of the computers, I have never done that in linux... yet
So two packagelists.txt to install sounds as a bit easier

You are still in Windows.
Maybe just one package list. Keep in mind the package list does not track post install package configuration or user configurations.

There are really two primary identifiers to use.
Username and IP addresses.
You will find many other 'uniquifying candidates' that don't really matter. Oh ya, I made that up, so no translation for the uniquification processes. The machine itself is not tied to the OS like windows machines can be. Any number of clones can nest together on a network with only unique IP addresses. Even username can be the same. The domain can all be the same. It's really your choice on how to differentiate things, and not important to the system. Keep in mind users uid are actually group numbers, so 1001, 1002, so on.

/etc/mailname, aliases are notable if you use a mail agent.

The file system of clones has the same uuid, this is only a problem with more than one physical disk in a computer at the same time. If you'd take my suggestion and use a vm to create the master image, put all users on that image, configure however, then the ONLY identifier needed is the MAC address of the destination machine = which can be built in to master image with MAC matching rules. You keep this image up to date, back up user /home separately, and you always have a new install available in the time it takes to write out the image to a disk.
...and many more details to learn.

If you want a laptop to have better battery time you install some packages.. and I don't have their packages names in my head. it is three letters long. and on a desktop that one will lower the performance.. and then there is other packages i don't have on my laptops but on my desktops.. and some i have on my laptops but not on my desktops.

Username, Computername, Mac address to get right IP

Thanks for the tip.
I only use disk-image clone for disk failure or of the system is unrecoverable. I have one image of every computer.. one original after install and tweaks.. then an other I update every 6months.. this is on my server and i reach them thru PXEboot
I have / and /home on the same partition, as i never store personal data on home. My home is only my system that's using it.. i have a Data partition for my temporary data on my laptops and a Network harddrive for my data when I'm home. I can access it via VPN login if i need it when I am away.
My desktops do have extra harddrive for some stuff but mainly they use Network harddrives too.
On my desktop i have a separate SSD for swap.. but on my laptops it is a partition.
I have different partition sizes on some computer as the HDD's is of different sizes and they have dualboot

But i will learn how to make my own OEM Linux install iso.. It will take time, but it will also save time in the distant future.. an installer beats a clone.

[Marie SWE]

I did write on page two of the solution.

I closing this thread as I did solve it.
The solution was not pretty as i still have not learned how to make an OEM install ISO
I will learn it with time.. no doubt.. But I didn't this summer.. I get more time next summer to look in to it. And i don't need it until Debian 11 EOL.

Thanks for the tips. and have a nice weekend

[Hallvor]

and with dyslexia it is hundreds times faster in a GUI as i need to check the spellings as the terminal don't have spellchecker and also normal spellchecker in document don't contains packages name and linux commands in the spellchecker list.

I understand. There are advantages and drawbacks with everything. The CLI is very powerful, and you learn it once and use forever. Some things are much easier to set up in a GUI. I like having both options.

what? can Dolphin set up Networkdrives in fstab.
I really need to take a look if that is true.. then I can tip others, so thay don't need to edit Fstab to get a network hard drive

No, Dolphin does not add anything to /etc/fstab

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wGADIyZsTY

You can also do the same with SMB.

I did try to install Debian 11 KDE but it became KDE plasma instead and it has a lot of irritating flashy animated things. So i need to look if it's possible to install KDE without plasma or un install the flashy things.

Open System Settings > Workspace Behavior > Desktop Effects and disable individual effects with animations that you don't want. You will still have compositing active. KDE is flexible as a Russian gymnast.

No I just don't want them to change my system, that's why I never went over to win10 frome win7 and 8.. rollups change your settings, your customization and so on... If i had liked that concept i had stayed on windows.

I have never experienced any changes in settings or configurations. I am always asked during dist-upgrades if I want to keep my configurations or use the developer's version.

[Marie SWE]

just an an update on my old closed thread...

when Debian12 was released, i made a debloat/install/tweak/setup script
So i install the iso, then run my script that takes around 20/25minutes to run on a HDD computer.. and then i have a darkmode install with all my programs, MS fonts, samba network + networkdrives, zswap and all needed for both desktops and laptops and my personal bookmarks, settings in my programs and the system... i just hash out the laptop or desktop features in the script before running it.
It is almost the laziest way i know of an install... except hiring someone that does it for me, as that IS the laziest way to go in life. *lol*

downside.. it has to be modified if future ISO's contains other package names.

[Bloom]

There is no bloatware in Debian. There is in a certain closed-source operating system from Redmond. Further discussion pointless.

[Marie SWE]

There is no bloatware in Debian. There is in a certain closed-source operating system from Redmond. Further discussion pointless.

Really!!

If i install Debian Xfce and i get Libre office as default office apps.. but i dont want Libre office.. Then libre office is Bloat.
I wont mention all packages but my script removes about 400packages from an install that i consider bloat.

[Fossy]

I have no problem with Linux operating systems c.q. Debian as far as their more or less bloated OOTB versions are concerned , plenty of choice :
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/cu ... so-hybrid/
What more do you want ?

Off topic , I’m a Cinnamon / firefox ESR / Thunderbird / Eid software / LibreOffice / GIMP / Synaptic / Inxi / Gparted / gnome-calculator & ( mintstick … should be in the Debian packages by default ) fan .

Rather have serious reservations about bloated-topics on their respective user forums ... or worse , posters possibly confusing Linux forums with social media .

Edit : our computers are WORKstations

[Marie SWE]

I have no problem with Linux operating systems c.q. Debian as far as their more or less bloated OOTB versions are concerned , plenty of choice :
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/cu ... so-hybrid/
What more do you want ?

Off topic , I’m a Cinnamon / firefox ESR / Thunderbird / Eid software / LibreOffice / GIMP / Synaptic / Inxi / Gparted / gnome-calculator & ( mintstick … should be in the Debian packages by default ) fan .

Rather have serious reservations about bloated-topics on their respective user forums ... or worse , posters possibly confusing Linux forums with social media .

Edit : our computers are WORKstations

some people dont think windows 11 out of the box install is bloated.. it is in the eye of the user if they think something is bloated or not.
I have always since win95 days uninstalled unnecessary software from the system as it is just stupid to have a lot of things installed you never will use.
even if i have a systemdisk of 1TB i still dont want software on the system i dont have need for.. Why have a CD/DVD/blueray-burner program if you dont have a optical disk unit in your computer... Then that program is bloat as you will never have use for it.. My opinion and that is why this thread started in the first place

as for your statement

Rather have serious reservations about bloated-topics on their respective user forums ... or worse , posters possibly confusing Linux forums with social media

i dont know what you meant with this one.
Did you mean it is not correct to have this kind of discussions/opinions on this forum?

[Bloom]

There is no bloatware in Debian. There is in a certain closed-source operating system from Redmond. Further discussion pointless.

Really!!
If i install Debian Xfce and i get Libre office as default office apps.. but i dont want Libre office.. Then libre office is Bloat.
I wont mention all packages but my script removes about 400packages from an install that i consider bloat.

You're not obliged to install the complete XFCE desktop: then you get all software that normally is included. An office suite is not considered bloatware. Bloatware are incomplete programs that want you to pay for a full version and nag you until you do, or software that bombards you with advertisements.

If you want to choose what to install and what not, don't select a full desktop but install it separately and only what you need. There are plenty of documentations outlining a compact LEGO-like install for Debian.

[Marie SWE]

You're not obliged to install the complete XFCE desktop: then you get all software that normally is included. An office suite is not considered bloatware. Bloatware are incomplete programs that want you to pay for a full version and nag you until you do, or software that bombards you with advertisements.

If you want to choose what to install and what not, don't select a full desktop but install it separately and only what you need. There are plenty of documentations outlining a compact LEGO-like install for Debian.

You just pointed out exactly what this thread is about.. i did not wanted to get all preinstalled stuff up on install.
I took Libre office as an example, as i dont have in front of me what software is included out of the box install.. and as this thread is solved, i wont look it up for you.. you can spend the time listing all packages that is included in a out of the box install if you want to know them all.

as for a DE Xfce.. i used the debian-Xfce ISO.. and even with net install a lot gets included which i pointed out in the first post.
So then you dont think windows is bloated, as you do not have any incomplete programs in a clean install.. only OEM installs have that..

by opinion is that unwanted software you dont have the need for is bloatware.. But it's good that you is one of those that don't think win10 is bloated.

[wizard10000]

You just pointed out exactly what this thread is about.. i did not wanted to get all preinstalled stuff up on install.

Then perhaps it'd be wise to educate yourself on doing a minimal install? If you deselect everything in Debian's installer the machine will still network and apt will still work. If you don't want the extra packages why install them in the first place?

[Marie SWE]

Then perhaps it'd be wise to educate yourself on doing a minimal install? If you deselect everything in Debian's installer the machine will still network and apt will still work. If you don't want the extra packages why install them in the first place?

it was kind of what i asked for in the first post...
as you can see even network install gives unwanted stuff.
and i did ask as you can see...
(So how can I make an install without having to spend more time uninstall a lot of things after every install.
Is it possible to edit the install.iso to opt out of unwanted software/packages?
I know how to do it in windows install.wim, so the question is how do I do it in Debian? )

So your comment (((Then perhaps it'd be wise to educate yourself on doing a minimal install?)))
is kind of less useful.. How could i educate my self when i dont have anything to study from????
If i tell you to learn how to tune a F1 car engine and you never have done that.. how should you learn if no one gives you a starting point to learn from



Here below is my first post if the first page was to far away.

Hi

So I have 5 computers to install next week and I trying to install then without all unnecessary things as example media player, office, games and so on and so on.
Network install is the same as full ISO install.. I still get the unwanted things..

So how can I make an install without having to spend more time uninstall a lot of things after every install.
Is it possible to edit the install.iso to opt out of unwanted software/packages?
I know how to do it in windows install.wim, so the question is how do I do it in Debian? (Debian stable non-free Xfce)

Regard Marie

Edit.
So be more specific in case I was misunderstood.
I want to change the installers package list and remove some unwanted software packages and to add a few other packages.
So I can save time on five computer installs.

[arochester]

Does it have to be xfce?

(*Might be heresy*) Look at WattOS. It's a Debian "derivative" which only uses the Debian Repositories. More of a customized Debian. Lightweight. It used the LXDE DE. Doesn't have media player, office as in LibreOffice - although it has office, as in Document Viewer, or any games. It starts as a LiveCD and uses Calamares Installer. The Torrent download is OK. Seems to meet many of your requirements

https://www.planetwatt.com/.

[wizard10000]

How could i educate my self when i dont have anything to study from????

Debian's install tools and processes are extensively documented.

[Marie SWE]

How could i educate my self when i dont have anything to study from????

Debian's install tools and processes are extensively documented.

To bad no one told me that 1½years ago then and pointed me to it.
if you dont know the keywords to search for, then you never find it without some one pointing you in the right direction.

[Marie SWE]

Does it have to be xfce?

(*Might be heresy*) Look at WattOS. It's a Debian "derivative" which only uses the Debian Repositories. More of a customized Debian. Lightweight. It used the LXDE DE. Doesn't have media player, office as in LibreOffice - although it has office, as in Document Viewer, or any games. It starts as a LiveCD and uses Calamares Installer. The Torrent download is OK. Seems to meet many of your requirements

https://www.planetwatt.com/.

this thread is 1½year old so i wont look for a new solution, as i only will have Debian on my old hardware that can't run windows LTSC. I sadly have to high demands of an OS... so sadly i cant stay on linux as daily driver even if i want to. I just have to have stable computers that can do what i need them to do and i can rely on them 24/7 365days a year.
But i will keep Debian on my old hardware and i will run Linux on my next server I'm about to get. as Linux is superior on servers. They might get there on desktop too in 5 or 10 years.

I just discovered the other day reading my logs on a zombie process problem, that my favorite laptop with Intel Core i3-2350M CPU is to slow for debian..... and they say Debian runs on a single core P4 1GHz.. So i think Debian need to update their minimum system requirements.

Code: Select all

[ 10811.793] (EE) event6  - ETPS/2 Elantech Touchpad: client bug: event processing lagging behind by 31ms, your system is too slow

[pbear]

Debian's documentation isn't difficult to find. For starters, https://www.debian.org/doc/.

[vng2022]

Yes, indeed, Debian's documentation isn't difficult to find. But as said above, the documetation should go with a person who open it for the reader on the right page. Note, there is are some people elsewhere who take as offence if advised to read some man page.