Pure xorg session

[Texlee]

Hello!
Is it possible to use a pure xorg session and not wayland with xwayland?
Thank you

[Hallvor]

If your desktop environment supports it, you can choose it during login.

[Texlee]

If your desktop environment supports it, you can choose it during login.

Thanks for the reply but unfortunately it doesn't help me. How do I know if my DE supports it? If so, how do I start an xorg session? Thank you

[lindi]

The default installation with gnome uses gdm3 that supports that. In the bottom right corner you can choose "Gnome on Xorg".

[Texlee]

The default installation with gnome uses gdm3 that supports that. In the bottom right corner you can choose "Gnome on Xorg".

Do you mean on the login screen? The gear icon? If yes, I can only choose between gnome and classic gnome. In both cases, it always uses xwayland.

[lindi]

The default installation with gnome uses gdm3 that supports that. In the bottom right corner you can choose "Gnome on Xorg".

Do you mean on the login screen? The gear icon? If yes, I can only choose between gnome and classic gnome. In both cases, it always uses xwayland.

I have four choices in the default installation.

[Texlee]

I found on the ubuntu forum to edit the /etc/gdm3/gnome.conf file but I don't have it. In its place I found the daemon.conf file. I've uncommented the WaylandEnable=false line. I rebooted but nothing changed. It says I'm always using xwayland. Out of curiosity I also tried to put "true" but it doesn't change anything anyway.

[Texlee]

The default installation with gnome uses gdm3 that supports that. In the bottom right corner you can choose "Gnome on Xorg".

Do you mean on the login screen? The gear icon? If yes, I can only choose between gnome and classic gnome. In both cases, it always uses xwayland.

I have four choices in the default installation.

Does it happen because I have the nvidia graphics card and I use nvidia drivers? I ask because now on linux it seems that nvidia is the origin of every problem.

[Texlee]

I've always assumed that my system was using xwayland because inxi says so, but the system settings instead show x11 as the graphics system in use. Now I'm going to show you what inxi says to see if also you interpret it like me.

Code: Select all

Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.9
    compositor: gnome-shell v: 43.9 driver: X: loaded: modesetting,nvidia
    unloaded: fbdev,vesa alternate: nouveau,nv dri: iris
    gpu: i915,nvidia,nvidia-nvswitch display-ID: :1 screens: 1

[mrmazda]

If you don't want anything to do with Wayland, start by not using Gnome (and not using GDM). Not using Gnome is not the only way to avoid it, but Gnome is front and center the prime implementer and proponent of Wayland, with KDE/Plasma not too far behind.

XWayland enables using non-Wayland (X11) apps in a Wayland session.

If you want to minimize the risk of being confused by inxi, always use as close as you can manage to the most recent version released. Latest inxi from stable Debian 98.7% of the time is old. Current from upstream is 3.3.33:

Code: Select all

# inxi -GSaz --vs --zl --hostname
inxi 3.3.33-00 (2024-02-06)
System:
  Host: fi965 Kernel: 6.1.0-18-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc
    v: 12.2.0 clocksource: tsc avail: hpet,acpi_pm parameters: ro
    root=LABEL=<filter> net.ifnames=0 ipv6.disable=1 noresume
    plymouth.enable=0 radeon.si_support=0 amdgpu.si_support=1 consoleblank=0
    mitigations=off
  Desktop: TDE (Trinity) v: R14.1.1 tk: Qt v: 3.5.0 wm: Twin v: 3.0
    with: kicker vt: 7 dm: 1: TDM 2: XDM Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD Oland [Radeon HD 8570 / R5 430 OEM R7 240/340 Radeon 520 OEM]
    vendor: Dell driver: amdgpu v: kernel alternate: radeon arch: GCN-1
    code: Southern Islands process: TSMC 28nm built: 2011-20 pcie: gen: 1
    speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 8 link-max: gen: 3 speed: 8 GT/s ports:
    active: DP-1,DVI-I-1 empty: none bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:6611
    class-ID: 0300 temp: 52.0 C
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 compositor: Twin v: 3.0 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting dri: radeonsi gpu: amdgpu display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 2560x2490 s-dpi: 120 s-size: 541x527mm (21.30x20.75")
    s-diag: 755mm (29.73")
  Monitor-1: DP-1 pos: primary,bottom model: Acer K272HUL serial: <filter>
    built: 2018 res: 2560x1440 hz: 60 dpi: 109 gamma: 1.2
    size: 598x336mm (23.54x13.23") diag: 686mm (27") ratio: 16:9 modes:
    max: 2560x1440 min: 720x400
  Monitor-2: DVI-I-1 pos: top model: Dell P2213 serial: <filter> built: 2012
    res: 1680x1050 hz: 60 dpi: 90 gamma: 1.2 size: 473x296mm (18.62x11.65")
    diag: 558mm (22") ratio: 16:10 modes: max: 1680x1050 min: 720x400
  API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: amd radeonsi platforms: device: 0 drv: radeonsi
    device: 1 drv: swrast gbm: drv: radeonsi surfaceless: drv: radeonsi x11:
    drv: radeonsi inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6 vendor: amd mesa v: 22.3.6 glx-v: 1.4 es-v: 3.2
    direct-render: yes renderer: AMD Radeon R7 200 Series (oland LLVM 15.0.6
    DRM 3.49 6.1.0-18-amd64) device-ID: 1002:6611 memory: 1000 MiB unified: no
#

Inxi can be updated using its own -U switch with superuser rights in Debian at any time after disabling its -U disabler contained in /etc/inxi.conf by changing B_ALLOW_UPDATE=false to B_ALLOW_UPDATE=true.

[sunrat]

#[/code]Inxi can be updated using its own -U switch with superuser rights in Debian at any time after disabling its -U disabler contained in /etc/inxi.conf by changing B_ALLOW_UPDATE=false to B_ALLOW_UPDATE=true.

Thanks for that hint. Just updated stable v.3.3.26 to 3.3.31-00 using that. Where do you get v.3.3.33 from? Is that pinxi?
Frankly I've never had an issue with stable inxi not showing correct info, except for one time many years ago for which I helped h2 fix it.

BTW, KDE Plasma is still using X11 in Bookworm but the upcoming Plasma 6 which may become default for Trixie will reportedly use Wayland.

[mrmazda]

Where did you get 3.3.31 from?

Where do you get v.3.3.33 from?

From using -U, or the link I provided.

Is that pinxi?

Pinxi went to 3.3.33-04 1 March.

Frankly I've never had an issue with stable inxi not showing correct info, except for one time many years ago for which I helped h2 fix it.

Read the changelog. H2 has been doing a lot of bug fixing in the past year.

BTW, KDE Plasma is still using X11 in Bookworm but the upcoming Plasma 6 which may become default for Trixie will reportedly use Wayland.

By default, it will, if using SDDM. Other DMs might not. I've removed SDDM from all but 2-3 installations. I don't need the whack-a-mole behavior trying to access vttys when SDDM randomly ties up some random combination of 1, 2 and/or 3.

[sunrat]

Where did you get 3.3.31 from?

From inxi -U. I just ran it again and it updated to 3.3.33!

Code: Select all

Currently running inxi version number: 3.3.31
...
Successfully updated to inxi main branch version: 3.3.33

Anyway, this is off-topic for the thread. Back to normal programming. Sorry, @Texlee

[Texlee]

If you don't want anything to do with Wayland, start by not using Gnome (and not using GDM). Not using Gnome is not the only way to avoid it, but Gnome is front and center the prime implementer and proponent of Wayland, with KDE/Plasma not too far behind.

XWayland enables using non-Wayland (X11) apps in a Wayland session.

If you want to minimize the risk of being confused by inxi, always use as close as you can manage to the most recent version released. Latest inxi from stable Debian 98.7% of the time is old. Current from upstream is 3.3.33:

Code: Select all

# inxi -GSaz --vs --zl --hostname
inxi 3.3.33-00 (2024-02-06)
System:
  Host: fi965 Kernel: 6.1.0-18-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc
    v: 12.2.0 clocksource: tsc avail: hpet,acpi_pm parameters: ro
    root=LABEL=<filter> net.ifnames=0 ipv6.disable=1 noresume
    plymouth.enable=0 radeon.si_support=0 amdgpu.si_support=1 consoleblank=0
    mitigations=off
  Desktop: TDE (Trinity) v: R14.1.1 tk: Qt v: 3.5.0 wm: Twin v: 3.0
    with: kicker vt: 7 dm: 1: TDM 2: XDM Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD Oland [Radeon HD 8570 / R5 430 OEM R7 240/340 Radeon 520 OEM]
    vendor: Dell driver: amdgpu v: kernel alternate: radeon arch: GCN-1
    code: Southern Islands process: TSMC 28nm built: 2011-20 pcie: gen: 1
    speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 8 link-max: gen: 3 speed: 8 GT/s ports:
    active: DP-1,DVI-I-1 empty: none bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:6611
    class-ID: 0300 temp: 52.0 C
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 compositor: Twin v: 3.0 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting dri: radeonsi gpu: amdgpu display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 2560x2490 s-dpi: 120 s-size: 541x527mm (21.30x20.75")
    s-diag: 755mm (29.73")
  Monitor-1: DP-1 pos: primary,bottom model: Acer K272HUL serial: <filter>
    built: 2018 res: 2560x1440 hz: 60 dpi: 109 gamma: 1.2
    size: 598x336mm (23.54x13.23") diag: 686mm (27") ratio: 16:9 modes:
    max: 2560x1440 min: 720x400
  Monitor-2: DVI-I-1 pos: top model: Dell P2213 serial: <filter> built: 2012
    res: 1680x1050 hz: 60 dpi: 90 gamma: 1.2 size: 473x296mm (18.62x11.65")
    diag: 558mm (22") ratio: 16:10 modes: max: 1680x1050 min: 720x400
  API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: amd radeonsi platforms: device: 0 drv: radeonsi
    device: 1 drv: swrast gbm: drv: radeonsi surfaceless: drv: radeonsi x11:
    drv: radeonsi inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6 vendor: amd mesa v: 22.3.6 glx-v: 1.4 es-v: 3.2
    direct-render: yes renderer: AMD Radeon R7 200 Series (oland LLVM 15.0.6
    DRM 3.49 6.1.0-18-amd64) device-ID: 1002:6611 memory: 1000 MiB unified: no
#

Inxi can be updated using its own -U switch with superuser rights in Debian at any time after disabling its -U disabler contained in /etc/inxi.conf by changing B_ALLOW_UPDATE=false to B_ALLOW_UPDATE=true.

I updated inxi but as you could imagine it gave me the same results.
So, gnome always uses wayland + xwayland.
If I wanted to use a pure xorg session, would I have to change DE?

[Texlee]

Where did you get 3.3.31 from?

From inxi -U. I just ran it again and it updated to 3.3.33!

Code: Select all

Currently running inxi version number: 3.3.31
...
Successfully updated to inxi main branch version: 3.3.33

Anyway, this is off-topic for the thread. Back to normal programming. Sorry, @Texlee

No problem!
It was useful for me too.
Thanks!

[oswaldkelso]

If you want Xorg just start Xorg

Don't use a display manager and don't install something like Gnome

I've not used a display manager with any regularity for the past 15 years or so. You even don't need a Xsession or xinit file.

The order is something like this. Heaviest to lightest.

1. Display manager (like gdm xdm etc) The only ones I know
2. Xsession
3. Xinit
4. None. Start your favorite WM directly i.e startx /usr/local/bin/catwm then start anything else you want manually or via a script. Both openbox and icewm have nice .autostart scripts

I use xinit I have a file called .xinitrc (note the dot) in my home directory

This is it.

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh

userresources=$HOME/.Xresources
usermodmap=$HOME/.Xmodmap
sysresources=/etc/X11/xinit/.Xresources
sysmodmap=/etc/X11/xinit/.Xmodmap

# merge in defaults and keymaps

if [ -f $sysresources ]; then
    xrdb -merge $sysresources
fi

if [ -f $sysmodmap ]; then
    xmodmap $sysmodmap
fi

if [ -f $userresources ]; then
    xrdb -merge $userresources
fi

if [ -f $usermodmap ]; then
    xmodmap $usermodmap
fi

# Start the window manager:
if [ -z "$DESKTOP_SESSION" -a -x /usr/bin/ck-launch-session ]; then
    ck-launch-session dbus-launch --exit-with-session /usr/bin/wmii.xinit/
else
#xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1600x1200 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal
xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1024x768 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal
xsetroot -solid  black
xsetroot -cursor_name left_ptr
xrdb -merge ~/.Xresources
#xcompmgr need transset 0.8 set in bashrc &
/usr/local/bin/xcompmgr & 
/usr/local/bin/wallpaper-switcher.sh &
/usr/local/bin/fittstool &
/usr/local/bin/catwm 

while sleep 2s; do status; done

fi

Because the .xinitrc is in my home directory it takes priority. Most of the stuff is ignored until the "Start the window manager" bit. In fact my hyperbola .xinitrc only has 4 or 5 lines. If I want to change my DE (Desktop environment) or WM (Window manager) There are tools to help in swapping your DE or WM like xwmconfig in Slackware but I'm quite lazy. If I want to swap wm I log in to the console and edit my .xinitrc before starting X. The same for screen resolution. You can see one is commented out.

This is my hyperbola .xinitrc

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
userresources=$HOME/.Xresources
xrandr --output "LVDS-1" --off  --output "VGA-1" --primary --mode 1920x1080 --poss 0x0  --output "HDMI-2" --mode 1920x1080 --poss 1920x0
~/catwm/autostart.sh &
exec /usr/local/bin/catwm

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”

[Texlee]

If you want Xorg just start Xorg

Don't use a display manager and don't install something like Gnome

I've not used a display manager with any regularity for the past 15 years or so. You even don't need a Xsession or xinit file.

The order is something like this. Heaviest to lightest.

1. Display manager (like gdm xdm etc) The only ones I know
2. Xsession
3. Xinit
4. None. Start your favorite WM directly i.e startx /usr/local/bin/catwm then start anything else you want manually or via a script. Both openbox and icewm have nice .autostart scripts

I use xinit I have a file called .xinitrc (note the dot) in my home directory

This is it.

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh

userresources=$HOME/.Xresources
usermodmap=$HOME/.Xmodmap
sysresources=/etc/X11/xinit/.Xresources
sysmodmap=/etc/X11/xinit/.Xmodmap

# merge in defaults and keymaps

if [ -f $sysresources ]; then
    xrdb -merge $sysresources
fi

if [ -f $sysmodmap ]; then
    xmodmap $sysmodmap
fi

if [ -f $userresources ]; then
    xrdb -merge $userresources
fi

if [ -f $usermodmap ]; then
    xmodmap $usermodmap
fi

# Start the window manager:
if [ -z "$DESKTOP_SESSION" -a -x /usr/bin/ck-launch-session ]; then
    ck-launch-session dbus-launch --exit-with-session /usr/bin/wmii.xinit/
else
#xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1600x1200 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal
xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1024x768 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal
xsetroot -solid  black
xsetroot -cursor_name left_ptr
xrdb -merge ~/.Xresources
#xcompmgr need transset 0.8 set in bashrc &
/usr/local/bin/xcompmgr & 
/usr/local/bin/wallpaper-switcher.sh &
/usr/local/bin/fittstool &
/usr/local/bin/catwm 

while sleep 2s; do status; done

fi

Because the .xinitrc is in my home directory it takes priority. Most of the stuff is ignored until the "Start the window manager" bit. In fact my hyperbola .xinitrc only has 4 or 5 lines. If I want to change my DE (Desktop environment) or WM (Window manager) There are tools to help in swapping your DE or WM like xwmconfig in Slackware but I'm quite lazy. If I want to swap wm I log in to the console and edit my .xinitrc before starting X. The same for screen resolution. You can see one is commented out.

This is my hyperbola .xinitrc

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
userresources=$HOME/.Xresources
xrandr --output "LVDS-1" --off  --output "VGA-1" --primary --mode 1920x1080 --poss 0x0  --output "HDMI-2" --mode 1920x1080 --poss 1920x0
~/catwm/autostart.sh &
exec /usr/local/bin/catwm

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”

Thanks but I'm a basic user and I barely understood what you wrote, sorry.