Debian Live LXQt ISO loads all unnecessary proprietary firmware even with firmware=never parameter

[baptx]

As requested, I am creating a new discussion about the issue I mentioned on viewtopic.php?p=791241#p791241 and you can find attached the content of /var/log/installer/syslog which was generated on a virtual machine with virt-manager when installing debian-live-12.5.0-amd64-lxqt.iso with the firmware=never parameter (the problem was also present on my real computer when I tested with a previous version debian-live-12.0.0-amd64-lxqt.iso). I also attached the result of the vrms command after using firmware=never parameter. To compare, you can also find attached another installer syslog without using firmware=never parameter, which also contains the line "hw-detect: skipping check-missing-firmware as requested by the caller" and looks like a bug.

You can find below the updated issue I mentioned in the other discussion:

The firmware=never parameter did not work at all when using the LXQt ISO file (maybe the problem also happens on ISO files with other desktop environments), the non-free firmware packages were installed. And with the LXQt ISO file, the graphical expert install as well as the text expert install did not ask me if I want the non-free firmware packages, they were installed automatically.
I noticed the firmware=never parameter only worked with the netinst ISO file.
For the automatic detection of needed non-free firmware packages, it only worked with the netinst ISO file as well (the LXQt ISO file installed all non-free firmware packages). But even with netinst ISO file, it seems it is only guessing the non-free firmware packages needed since several were not needed to make my laptop work correctly (firmware-realtek, firmware-sof-signed) when installed on my real computer instead of a virtual machine.
Can these issues be fixed?

It would also be useful to have the firmware=never parameter added in a menu in the normal graphical installation (for people who don't want the complexity of the expert installation), since it is more convenient to have it in a menu and also avoids mistakes when typing firmware=never (I accidentally typed firmzare due to my AZERTY keyboard and the QWERTY input). It would be a good idea to warn the user if the entered parameter / value does not exist, to avoid unwanted results like installing non-free firmware.

[wizard10000]

...And with the LXQt ISO file, the graphical expert install as well as the text expert install did not ask me if I want the non-free firmware packages, they were installed automatically.
I noticed the firmware=never parameter only worked with the netinst ISO file.

I think this is worthy of a bug report.

The netintall image appears to work as expected. Pretty sure the netinstall image won't ask you about non-free *firmware* unless you're in expert mode where it asks about both and defaults to yes for non-free firmware and no for non-free software.

I'd like to see both prompts in all installers.

[baptx]

Someone else also reported the issue here:
viewtopic.php?t=158876

[wizard10000]

I just went through all relevant bugs for "debian-installer" and didn't find anything related - if you'd like to look for yourself check it out here - https://bugs.debian.org/debian-installer

edit: anything before bug #103500-ish is before Bookworm's release so that might narrow your search a bit.

[baptx]

I reported the bug here:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... ug=1069964
Note that it is not displayed on https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo ... t=unstable but on https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo ... -installer.

[wizard10000]

From the looks of the bug report it looks like I should have suggested you file the bug against debian-live instead of debian-installer. Apologies for leading you down the wrong path but the maintainer did forward the issue to the debian-live team.

[Aki]

Hello @Baptx ,

I would suggest to update the subject of the first message to highlight that this is not a Debian Installer ISO issue, but a Debian Live ISO issue; i.e.:

Debian Live LXQt ISO loads all unnecessary proprietary firmware even with firmware=never parameter

It might also be useful to have a look at the "Debian Installer Live Manual" [1]:

Types of Debian Installer

The three main types of installer are:

"Normal" Debian Installer: This is a normal live system image with a separate kernel and initrd which (when selected from the appropriate bootloader) launches into a standard Debian Installer instance, just as if you had downloaded a CD image of Debian and booted it. Images containing a live system and such an otherwise independent installer are often referred to as "combined images".

On such images, Debian is installed by fetching and installing .deb packages using debootstrap, from local media or some network-based network, resulting in a default Debian system being installed to the hard disk.

"Live" Debian Installer: This is a live system image with a separate kernel and initrd which (when selected from the appropriate bootloader) launches into an instance of the Debian Installer.

Installation will proceed in an identical fashion to the "normal" installation described above, but at the actual package installation stage, instead of using debootstrap to fetch and install packages, the live filesystem image is copied to the target. This is achieved with a special udeb called live-installer.

After this stage, the Debian Installer continues as normal, installing and configuring items such as bootloaders and local users, etc.

Note: to support both normal and live installer entries in the bootloader of the same live medium, you must disable live-installer by preseeding live-installer/enable=false.

"Desktop" Debian Installer: Regardless of the type of Debian Installer included, d-i can be launched from the Desktop by clicking on an icon. This is user friendlier in some situations. In order to make use of this, the debian-installer-launcher package needs to be included.

Note: to support both normal and live installer entries in the bootloader of the same live medium, you must disable live-installer by preseeding live-installer/enable=false.

As far I can understand, therefore, the "firmware=never" option applies only to "Normal" Debian Installer.

On the contrary, the Debian Live ISO from boot menu defaults to the "Live Debian Installer" (see [2]) that makes a full binary copy from the root squash file-system of Live ISO (that contains pre-installed the firmware files) to the installed partition of your Debian hard disk; i.e., from your log:

Code: Select all

[..]
Apr 26 19:35:49 main-menu[458]: INFO: Menu item 'live-installer' selected
Apr 26 19:35:49 base-installer: info: Using squashfs support for /cdrom/live/filesystem.squashfs
Apr 26 19:35:49 anna-install: Installing squashfs-modules
Apr 26 19:35:49 anna[6907]: DEBUG: resolver (kernel-image-6.1.0-18-amd64-di): package doesn't exist (ignored)
Apr 26 19:35:49 anna[6907]: DEBUG: retrieving squashfs-modules-6.1.0-18-amd64-di 6.1.76-1
Apr 26 19:35:49 kernel: [  171.053946] squashfs: version 4.0 (2009/01/31) Phillip Lougher
Apr 26 19:35:49 kernel: [  171.056647] loop: module loaded
Apr 26 19:35:49 kernel: [  171.057679] loop0: detected capacity change from 0 to 5238368
Apr 26 19:35:49 kernel: [  171.072954] /dev/loop0: Can't open blockdev
Apr 26 19:38:36 live-installer: dpkg-divert: warning: diverting file '/sbin/start-stop-daemon' from an Essential package with rename is dangerous, use --no-rename
Apr 26 19:38:36 /usr/lib/live-installer.d/openssh-server: warning: /target/etc/mtab won't be updated since it is a symlink.
Apr 26 19:38:36 live-installer: dpkg-divert: warning: diverting file '/sbin/start-stop-daemon' from an Essential package with rename is dangerous, use --no-rename
[..]

The "firmware=never" parameter does not apply to the "live installer", not it can be applicable because of the binary copy.

You can use the Debian installer [3], which is currently the official installation media.

Otherwise, you can use a Debian Live ISO, but you must boot it with the following parameters:

Code: Select all

firmware=never live-installer/enable=false

With the live-installer/enable=false preseed parameter, the Live ISO will start the "Normal" debian-installer instead of the "live-installer" and therefore the firmware=never preseed parameter will avoid installing firmware.

Hope this helps.

---
[1] Debian Installer Live Manual > Customizing Debian Installer > Types of Debian Installer
[2] live installer udeb
[3] Installing Debian 12.5

[baptx]

Hi @Aki, thanks for the information, it would be useful to have the parameter live-installer/enable=false mentioned in the documentation people have been pointed to on https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/ch02s02 in the previous discussion. I only mentioned "LXQt ISO" since there is only one ISO file dedicated to LXQt and by default the parameter failed. The term "live" could have been confusing by thinking I booted a live ISO before the installation, which was not the case.
Ideally, if the parameter firmware=never is not recognized, it should include the parameter live-installer/enable=false or the installation should ask the user if they want proprietary firmware.
I also read on viewtopic.php?p=797124#p797124 that firmware=never would even skip free firmware, so we should use firmware=free parameter to include free firmware only? Is there a way to do that after the installation if we used firmware=never?

[Aki]

Hello,

Hi @Aki, thanks for the information, it would be useful to have the parameter live-installer/enable=false mentioned in the documentation people have been pointed to on https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/ch02s02 in the previous discussion.

The "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide" [1] refers to the "Debian Installer" [2], not to Debian Live ISO.

I also read on viewtopic.php?p=797124#p797124 that firmware=never would even skip free firmware, so we should use firmware=free parameter to include free firmware?

You can develop and propose a software patch to the Debian Installer, if you are interested in.

Is there a way to that after the installation if we used firmware=never?

If you are asking if it is possible to install firmware after the installation process, yes, of course it is. You can install and remove firmware at any time.

---
[1] Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide
[2] 1.4. What is the Debian Installer?
[3] Installazione di Debian 12.5

[baptx]

I meant, what command should we use to do the free firmware detection and installation that was ignored after using firmware=never?

[Aki]

I meant, what command should we use to do the free firmware detection and installation that was ignored after using firmware=never?

I would suggest to open a dedicated discussion. Give your advice and suggestions on how to do this, if you have any.

For the benefit of other forum readers, could you please update the subject of the first message to indicate that it is about the Live ISO?

[baptx]

@Aki I updated the title and created a dedicated discussion here:
viewtopic.php?t=159126

[Aki]

@Aki I updated the title and created a dedicated discussion here:
viewtopic.php?t=159126

Thanks.