Debian buster: are you testing?

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llivv
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#21 Post by llivv »

I was scolded for having to ask about the path errors as well ..
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=138837
you may want to read the man page for su
than double/triple check it after buster release.

I use a lot of different su options and have read a lot of different versions of the su man page.

The path issues are a result of an inititive call [USR Merge] which makes a lot of sense when using systemd, probably. :?:
UsrMerge
not so much when using sysv. :shock:
And there is current discussion regarding package builds with usr merge issues and building packages on merged usr build machines. check it out on the boot list if interested.

Bulkley see package usrmerge for a couple hints why stretch don't upgrade to easy to buster, yet.
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milomak
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#22 Post by milomak »

i can' emember why i've always used su -
Desktop: A320M-A PRO MAX, AMD Ryzen 5 3600, GALAX GeForce RTX™ 2060 Super EX (1-Click OC) - Sid, Win10, Arch Linux, Gentoo, Solus
Laptop: Lenovo ideapad Y700-15ISK - Sid, Win10, Solus
Kodi: AMD Athlon 5150 APU w/Radeon HD 8400 - Sid

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llivv
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#23 Post by llivv »

su -
the gnu form is
su --login
one man page recommends gnu on linux

another su man pages stated
-c is discouraged #OK :?: '

ok -c'<command>' may have detrimental affects in some cases depending on how a package is built <important>
or in some other shell or a set default path that is not posix
or the newest posix
Do they change posix? if yes, why?

In the end,
isn't knowing where the tools are in the tree, almost as important as the current posix standard?

what about su --login --command='<command>'
what are the possible implications there?
apologizes if that sounds like I'm pushing :evil:
it must be in my nature :oops:
In memory of Ian Ashley Murdock (1973 - 2015) founder of the Debian project.

xepan
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#24 Post by xepan »

llivv wrote: man ...
I always check the funny-manpages first of all. If they fail, i check the manpages-posix. https://packages.debian.org/stretch/manpages-posix
iow: confusing, huh? :-)
To answer your question: to me the actual posix standard usually isn't important (but i think that is the wrong approach, depends with who you speak, and about what, i guess).

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llivv
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#25 Post by llivv »

xepan wrote:
llivv wrote: man ...
I always check the funny-manpages first of all. If they fail, i check the manpages-posix. https://packages.debian.org/stretch/manpages-posix
iow: confusing, huh? :-)
To answer your question: to me the actual posix standard usually isn't important (but i think that is the wrong approach, depends with who you speak, and about what, i guess).
indeed :)
oh so many issues above.
open group
DOJ
knighthood
(world pease)
tanks for the non-free
I'll now have to start watching that too...... 8) bourne
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Wheelerof4te
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#26 Post by Wheelerof4te »

I won't be testing it, sadly.
Buster has weak security support, as do all testing releases. Even Chromium isn't in the repo atm because of a source package renaming.

Looking forward to it, though. Finally, Wayland is default on GNOME.

Bulkley
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#27 Post by Bulkley »

I tried the upgrade again. Same problems as before. Ir failed to start blind portmap service and it failed to raise network interfaces. It also failed to recognize my computer ID. I've been doing dist-upgrades for a couple of decades and Buster is the only one that has ever stopped me. There must be some radical changes in there.

One thing this experience reinforces is the need for a good clone to fall back on.

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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#28 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

@Bulkley, if you post the full output of

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apt-get -s dist-upgrade
then we may be able to help :)

I had to get rid of my buster system[1] but I've reinstalled stretch and I'll be dist-upgrading it on the 12th (when the transition freeze starts) so I'll post back then.

[1] I broke it :D
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Wheelerof4te
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#29 Post by Wheelerof4te »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:[1] I broke it
How does someone experienced like you break testing so fast? :D Makes me kinda worried for my Sid laptop, haha.

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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#30 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Wheelerof4te wrote:How does someone experienced like you break testing so fast? :D
*Whispers* I'm not really that experienced with Debian, I'm just good with a search engine and an expert bullshitter :mrgreen:
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Zjho
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#31 Post by Zjho »

Finally surrendered running Buster on spare box after BSODs with unresponsive cursor on all choices of kernel and rescue modes.
However looking forward to trying again when goes officially stable. Stretch is rock solid on main box (identical hardware).

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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#32 Post by Bulkley »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:@Bulkley, if you post the full output of

Code: Select all

apt-get -s dist-upgrade
then we may be able to help :)
Thanks for the offer. When I do a dist-upgrade I do it from a console (no xorg) as follows:

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apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[change apt sources]
apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
apt-get dist upgrade
Is apt-get -s dist-upgrade useful without doing the first three steps?

As I'm back in Stretch I'll wait until the next urge. Actually I'm not upset about being stuck in Stretch. My system is running very well with everything set the way I like it. I could keep it like this for a long time.

My big attraction to Debian is and always has been package management. I clearly remember RPM dependency hell. :twisted: Lately I've been experimenting with a MX Linux 18 live-USB. As I understand it MX runs without Systemd controlling everything yet keeping Debian packages and package management. Now if I can find a way to dump Xfce and replace it with Openbox (not so easy on a live-USB) I'll take MX more seriously.


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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#34 Post by stevepusser »

Bulkley wrote:
As I understand it MX runs without Systemd controlling everything yet keeping Debian packages and package management. Now if I can find a way to dump Xfce and replace it with Openbox (not so easy on a live-USB) I'll take MX more seriously.
Yes, it boots without systemd by default, though it is an option in the Advanced part of the GRUB menu. Just today, the other MX and antiX devs are fixing a weird problem with Debian's sysvinit scripts that prevent flatpaks like Steam, Atom, etc. form just working out of the box without systemd. Apparently, Debian just went the opposite way from the rest of the Linux world when setting a mount point symlink in /tmp/shm or something, and the flatpaks guys aren't accounting for that. It seems a pretty easy fix, though.

You might be able to get Openbox set up and remove xfce in a persistent MX Live USB, then use the snapshot tool to make your own Openbox respin ISO. I know the snapshot tool can do that, but aren't that familiar with the persistent Live option, just that it's the most advanced there is. Or you could make a respin in a virtual machine, too. Asking on the MX forums would probably help a lot.
MX Linux packager and developer

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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#35 Post by Bulkley »

HuangLao, Thanks for the links.

My musings are side tracking the thread. I think I should start a fresh one.

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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#36 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Bulkley wrote:When I do a dist-upgrade I do it from a console (no xorg) as follows:

Code: Select all

apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[change apt sources]
apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
apt-get dist upgrade
Is apt-get -s dist-upgrade useful without doing the first three steps?
Yes, it should still return useful information :)

The trick is to point the sources to buster, run `apt update` then `apt-get -s dist-upgrade` then revert the sources back to stretch and `apt update` again to bring your box back to stable.
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#37 Post by Bulkley »

apt-get -s dist-upgrade produced 126 pages (in LibreOffice Writer) of stuff and is much to big to post here. Just the conf part occupies 40 pages. I browsed through it and did not see any error messages. It all looks routine.

When I tried the dist-upgrade the other day I saw no error messages until I rebooted.

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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#38 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Bulkley wrote:When I tried the dist-upgrade the other day I saw no error messages until I rebooted.
Ah, I see.

I'm happy to help you troubleshoot that if you want, what did the error messages say?
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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#39 Post by Bulkley »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I'm happy to help you troubleshoot that if you want, what did the error messages say?
Thanks for the offer. I think I know where to start: hardware. This machine is at least ten years old. At that, I got it second hand and changed a few things to suit my needs. The mobo is original. Buster is most likely using a kernel and/or other software that doesn't look too far backward. I made up a live Buster USB and it would not boot. I tried two different versions and nothing. It's simply not recognized. It looks like that eufi (sorry I can't remember acronyms) setting in the BIOS. I'll look into it when I have time. I'm in no hurry to do that. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I like my Stretch as is.

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Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#40 Post by xepan »

Bulkley wrote: Thanks for the offer. I think I know where to start: hardware. This machine is at least ten years old. At that, I got it second hand and changed a few things to suit my needs. The mobo is original. Buster is most likely using a kernel and/or other software that doesn't look too far backward.
None of my PC's or laptops is younger than 10 years, besides the raspberries, and actual kernels and distributions work well on them.
And i got quite some, 6 or such (and quite a few i threw away the last years, so i can speak for more than just those 6).

Might still be that in your case that is the problem, i wouldn't know. I am not much of a reader, more of the "let's try and see" guys.

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# dmidecode 3.2
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 2.4 present.

Handle 0x0002, DMI type 1, 27 bytes
System Information
        Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard
        Product Name: HP Compaq dc5750 Small Form Factor
        Version:
        Serial Number: CZC71856VC
        UUID: d706ceac-48e2-db11-bbda-4b4896d9001a
        Wake-up Type: Power Switch
        SKU Number: EW318AV
        Family: 103C_53307F

# grep "model name" /proc/cpuinfo
model name      : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+
model name      : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+
# uname -a
Linux voidlinux 4.19.13_1 #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Dec 30 08:54:53 UTC 2018 i686 GNU/Linux
#
one of my two machines which are able to handle 64 :-) ...

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