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[Thread Retired] Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#101 Post by pwzhangzz »

The most recent upgrade messed up ibus-libpinyin rendering the system unable to input Chinese. Since I don't use Chinese input everyday, this problem escaped detection from my "test" partition and was allowed to migrate into my "primary" partition (Me Stupid!). However, as I mentioned above, I also maintain a bootable backup partition that I can boot into (which I did) without spending any time doing recovery operations. (This is a work machine and I can't afford any down time).

Since I will be using this backup partition for at least a couple of days (usually less), one of the first things I did was to install grub from the boot folder of this partition:
sudo apt grub-install /dev/sda
This changes the default boot from this back partition.

If I don't want to change the default boot partition, I can also rsync the backup partition to the primary partition (with a special script)--while running Sid in the backup partition--then boot back into the primary partition as if nothing had happened. This usually took less than a couple of minutes but without incurring any work interruption (except the reboot time).

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#102 Post by pwzhangzz »

Linux kernel 6.1:

ryzenv@L32v:~$ uname -a
Linux L32v 6.1.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.4-1 (2023-01-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#103 Post by pwzhangzz »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2023-01-08 09:17 The most recent upgrade messed up ibus-libpinyin rendering the system unable to input Chinese.
Looks like this problem can be solved by removing the ~/.cache/ibus/libpinyin folder and restarting ibus-libpinyin. Similar problem had happened before and I should have figured it out much earlier. Of course there are implications about removing the ibus-libpinyin cache folder but this is something that will be left for Epico (ibus-libpinyin principal developer) to worry. The upgrade also elevates Linux kernel from 6.0 to 6.1! I am happy as a clam. Whatever that means.

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#104 Post by pwzhangzz »

Discovered a new problem in that when I create a new user using gnome settings, the new user's login session will misbehave. For example, I could not open a new gnome terminal or run many apps such as synaptics*. Also, I couldn't log into any tty session.

At the present time, I can use the familiar line command to create users ("adduser"), then everything would seem to be normal. However, I am curious as to what caused these problems? And are there other undiscovered problems related to the most recently upgraded gnome sessions?

* (update) As discussed below, the problem was found to be related to (current) gnome's failure to specify a shell when creating a new user account. No shell, no terminal. Running synaptics requires the opening of a terminal to input administrator's password (unable to do this, synaptics thus won't run). Once the missing shell is provided, problem solved.
Last edited by pwzhangzz on 2023-01-16 23:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#105 Post by pwzhangzz »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2023-01-13 08:58 Discovered a new problem in that when I create a new user using gnome settings, the new user's login session will misbehavior. For example, I could not open a new gnome terminal or run many apps such as synaptics. Also, I couldn't log into any tty session.
Just realized that the most recently upgraded gnome failed (any reason?) to set up shells for new users created using Gnome Settings:
ryzen@L32:~$ cat /etc/passwd
. . .
temp:x:1001:1001:temp:/home/temp:/usr/sbin/nologin
After the problem was identified, the (temporary) workaround is very simple:
sudo chsh -s /bin/bash temp
This band-aid approach, of course, is no solution to the real problem. Is there any way to find out the source of this problem?

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#106 Post by canci »

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#107 Post by pwzhangzz »

canci wrote: 2023-01-19 15:13 Debian 12 Freeze begins...
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a ... 00004.html
Some (highly respected and deeply appreciated) Debian developers know how to game the system? ? ? :D :D :D For example, the two packages that I care a lot about, ibus-libpinyin and libpinyin (for inputting Chinese characters), almost out of nowhere, both received a version upgrade (the current versions were still, literally speaking, fresh from the oven and not even available in Stable). But for whatever reason(s), I appreciate that. Actually am deeply moved. :!:

Based on my Bullseye experience, when Bullseye development (in the name of "Sid") went into a freeze state, a weekly-built hybrid live iso of Testing then became available. This makes Testing's testings much more convenient and is very useful to encourage more testers.

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#108 Post by pwzhangzz »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2023-01-15 19:00 Just realized that the most recently upgraded gnome failed (any reason?) to set up shells for new users created using Gnome Settings:
During the most recent upgrade, it was shown that "gnome-settings-daemon" and "gnome-settings-daemon-common" are on deck to be upgraded but are being held back, probably due to dependency related reasons:
ryzen@L32:~$ apt list --upgradable
Listing... Done
gnome-settings-daemon-common/unstable 43.0-4 all [upgradable from: 43.0-3]
gnome-settings-daemon/unstable 43.0-4 amd64 [upgradable from: 43.0-3]
ryzen@L32:~$ sudo apt upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
gnome-settings-daemon gnome-settings-daemon-common
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Perhaps this should solve the problem? ? ?

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#109 Post by Debianuser42 »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2023-01-19 18:51
canci wrote: 2023-01-19 15:13 Debian 12 Freeze begins...
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a ... 00004.html
Some (highly respected and deeply appreciated) Debian developers know how to game the system? ? ? :D :D :D For example, the two packages that I care a lot about, ibus-libpinyin and libpinyin (for inputting Chinese characters), almost out of nowhere, both received a version upgrade (the current versions were still, literally speaking, fresh from the oven and not even available in Stable). But for whatever reason(s), I appreciate that. Actually am deeply moved. :!:

Based on my Bullseye experience, when Bullseye development (in the name of "Sid") went into a freeze state, a weekly-built hybrid live iso of Testing then became available. This makes Testing's testings much more convenient and is very useful to encourage more testers.
My danish bookworm livebuild script could make the hybrid you need, at convenience.
https://github.com/linuxuser42/dabien/b ... ookworm.sh
You would want to change the packages, 'danish' and keyboard in the 'lb config ...' line, of course.

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#110 Post by pwzhangzz »

Debianuser42 wrote: 2023-02-05 12:48My danish bookworm livebuild script could make the hybrid you need, at convenience.
https://github.com/linuxuser42/dabien/b ... ookworm.sh
You would want to change the packages, 'danish' and keyboard in the 'lb config ...' line, of course.
Thanks a whole lot!

One question: Were you able to build Bookworm hybrid liveusb iso from Bullseye? Or lb build still has to be run from the same Debian version? This was true (??? could be a result of my ignorance), but don't know whether the situation has changed? Or could it be that it was never the case?

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#111 Post by pwzhangzz »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2023-01-19 18:51Based on my Bullseye experience, when Bullseye development (in the name of "Sid") went into a freeze state, a weekly-built hybrid live iso of Testing then became available. This makes Testing's testings much more convenient and is very useful to encourage more testers.
According to our esteemed Debian official web site:
Regular builds of testing / (what will be Bookworm):
. . .
We used to have weekly live builds too, but we're looking for new maintainer(s) for them.
https://get.debian.org/images/

Thus, it appears that there is no one doing the weekly-built Testing hybrid live iso and we may have to spend a little bit more time discussing the build scripts (lb config) ourselves. From our experience, a customized -- and specifically targeted -- persistent LiveUSB is the "only" way to introduce a Linux desktop to the general public, and this is one of Debian's biggest strengths.

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#112 Post by pwzhangzz »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2023-02-05 19:19
Debianuser42 wrote: 2023-02-05 12:48My danish bookworm livebuild script could make the hybrid you need, at convenience.
https://github.com/linuxuser42/dabien/b ... ookworm.sh
You would want to change the packages, 'danish' and keyboard in the 'lb config ...' line, of course.
Thanks a whole lot!

One question: Were you able to build Bookworm hybrid liveusb iso from Bullseye? Or lb build still has to be run from the same Debian version? This was true (??? could be a result of my ignorance), but don't know whether the situation has changed? Or could it be that it was never the case?
I am able to create a Sid/Bookworm liveusb image in Bullseye. The information I mentioned above must have been out of date. The livebuild script creates a live iso which can be directly attached to any VirtualBox VM and boot from there. Since this is a read-only system, it runs super fast. As a first try, I am only using the default package list. There are of course lots to learn and experiment. This is a great forum!
Screenshot from 2023-02-08 23-00-34.png
Screenshot from 2023-02-08 23-11-49.png

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#113 Post by pwzhangzz »

Out of nowhere, we are having problems creating bookworm hybrid iso's. No wonder the Debian development team decided to discontinue this tradition :mrgreen: . When this issue is hopefully resolved, I will post the basic steps of making a persistent bookworm live usb.
(These steps were based on @Debianuser42's very helpful script.)

Another approach is to download the live Bullseye hybrid iso, rsync it to the fist (fat32) partition of a usb stick which has been configured to provide "Debian" persistence, then boot up and do the usual distro upgrade. If the normal live-build process is not resolved soon, I will post this approach. Bookworm is supposed to come out in a few months and we really need a whole bunch of able bodies to test/improve it. At least we could try it on a live USB??? Risk-free and Painless???

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#114 Post by pwzhangzz »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2023-02-24 06:32 Out of nowhere, we are having problems creating bookworm hybrid iso's.
The culprit was a problematic package (dependency problem):
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
firmware-ath9k-htc : Breaks: firmware-atheros (<= 20230210-1) but 20230210-1 is to be installe
There may be other problematic packages, but live-build stops at the first encounter.

This dependency problem was also observed in an installed Sid system, but the apt tool was able to hold back the problem package(s) from installation and the system was otherwise successfully upgraded.

Debian developers were very quick to provide a patch (! ! !). Once the Sid repo was updated and I was able to upgrade the problem package in my installed system, it was very easy to create a persistent Sid live usb and boot from it:
Screenshot from 2023-02-26 16-00-11.resized.png
At the present time, the patch has not percolated into Bookworm/Testing yet. Only in Sid.

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#115 Post by pwzhangzz »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2023-02-24 06:32When this issue is hopefully resolved, I will post the basic steps of making a persistent bookworm live usb. (These steps were based on @Debianuser42's very helpful script.)
The following are the steps that I used to create a bare bone gnome hybrid sid live iso, as noted above these steps are based from @Debianuser42's script:
mkdir d12 && cd d12
lb config --distribution sid
lb config -a amd64 --parent-archive-areas "main contrib non-free non-free-firmware" --archive-areas "main contrib non-free non-free-firmware" --bootappend-live "boot=live components persistence quiet splash" --debian-installer live
echo '! Packages Priority standard' > config/package-lists/standard.list.chroot
echo task-gnome-desktop > config/package-lists/desktop.list.chroot
lb config --initramfs live-boot
sudo lb build
Since there are only seven steps, there is really no need to assemble them into a script--at least initially. Just execute them in a terminal one at a time. With some patience you should be able to create a hybrid live sid iso. This iso has persistence provision built in but you can use it as a normal live iso.

I intentionally avoid the issue of customization. This is actually the gist of this whole thread.
Last edited by pwzhangzz on 2023-08-13 01:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#116 Post by None1975 »

Hello. Sorry for my bad english. It is not my native language.

I installed Debian 12 on one of my computers. I made clean install with Debian Installer Bookworm Alpha 2 release (net installer). The installation went without any problems. The Debian-installer detected the required firmware without any problems. In package selection i selected only standard tools (no desktop). After restarting the computer, I was not pleasantly surprised, because I decided to check the memory usage. It is about 250 megabytes! Maybe it's because of the new technologies integrated into the new kernel, or maybe it's because of bad optimization, but somehow I think it's because of the new kernel. It's very strange that there are so many. I remember that after installing Debian 11 on the same machine, the memory usage was about 125 megabytes. Except for the high memory usage (from my point of view), the system works as it should. It is snappy and responsive. installed xorg meta-package (for to be on the safe side), i3 meta-package, web browsers Surf and Firefox (be the way, Surf in Debian 11 had a small problem. When using dmenu and opening web pages, it spawned zombie processes. It's also very slow...it's hard to open new pages and it's a real pain to use.. In Debian 12, this is not the case and surf itself works SIGNIFICANTLY faster and no zombie process :) ), the office package libreoffice, mpv, cmus and some other small console programs. For audio i using pipewire only.

Image

Everything works stable and fast. I'm happy considering my computer is very old, about 18 years old....

So, I am currently using the latest Debian which is not officially released yet :)

Here is screenshot of fresh booted system

Image

And here screenshot after extensive usage. Please pay attention to memory usage....

Image

P.S.

In Debian 12, I3 wm is 4.22 version. The biggest change in this release is the merge of the i3-gaps fork. The i3-gaps fork was the most popular fork of i3, adding the option to show gaps between tiled windows and/or the screen edges. Instead of maintaining two versions of i3 (both upstream and downstream,
meaning in Linux distributions and other package collections), maintainers concluded it would be better for everyone to merge this feature. Gaps are off by default, so there is no change in behavior.
OS: Debian 12.4 Bookworm / DE: Enlightenment
Debian Wiki | DontBreakDebian, My config files on github

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#117 Post by pwzhangzz »

Emerald (Debian 12) login screen:
dgm3.emerald.jpg

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#118 Post by pwzhangzz »

The above emerald gdm3 login screen is not as straightforward as it looks! I had to resort to a flatpak that takes up almost 1 GB of additional space (probably because it had to duplicate many of the gnome functions). If any Debian expert knows how to do this without a flatpak, please, please let me know! ! !

There are at least three places that supposedly would allow a user to change gdm login background (speaking of "confusion") but none worked. Perhaps it's time to consider switching back to lightdm? ? ? Now that Debian 12 has evolved into such a nice shape (at least for everyday desktops), the pitch-black gdm login background becomes a terribly conspicuous eye sore. Especially when we have such a beautiful emerald theme on deck.


The author of "Login Manager Settings" actually also provides an appimage (only 50 MB also can be stored in an external partition/drive):

https://github.com/realmazharhussain/gd ... s/tag/v2.1

Very convenient and it works great. Thanks!

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#119 Post by pwzhangzz »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2023-02-06 17:01 According to our esteemed Debian official web site:
Regular builds of testing / (what will be Bookworm):
. . .
We used to have weekly live builds too, but we're looking for new maintainer(s) for them.
https://get.debian.org/images/

Thus, it appears that there is no one doing the weekly-built Testing hybrid live iso and we may have to spend a little bit more time discussing the build scripts (lb config) ourselves. From our experience, a customized -- and specifically targeted -- persistent LiveUSB is the "only" way to introduce a Linux desktop to the general public, and this is one of Debian's biggest strengths.
Update:

Weekly builds of Debian 12 hybrid live isos are now available:

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/week ... so-hybrid/

Just tested it in VBox:
Debian12.png
Will do some more testings when time permits. Many of the packages included (or more important, not included), of course, do not fit my need. For example, as I discussed in a separate thread, the live usb does not allow the input of Chinese characters and is thus largely unmarketable to Chinese speakers or Chinese-speaker-wannabes (like me :mrgreen: ) This has been a problem since at least Bullseye but can be (somewhat) ameliorated with Debian's unique "persistence" features. If necessary, we can merge (via overlay) the original squashfs with the accumulated changes (via persistence) to form a new filesystem.squashfs then burn the whole thing into a new iso. This process has the advantage in that it is 100% pure Debian. This is exciting! The age of Debian 12 has finally arrived.

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Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#120 Post by pwzhangzz »

Gone beyond just virtual machines, I have run the newly released Testing hybrid iso on a live usb (with persistence) and in an installed system. There are, of course, quite a few glitches and, as good as it already is, rooms for further improvements.

Also, the emerald theme is simply amazing. (For my own marketing purposes) I am seriously considering calling bookworm "Emerald Linux". :idea: The Testing live iso includes backport in the sources.list file. This seems to indicate the Debian developers have decided to beef up the backport developments (to allow bookworm to enjoy future developments without distro upgrading--sort of like Sid). This is a great news as many of my business friends don't like what comes after Debian 12. :D Emerald Forever!

As I mentioned previously, we have been running bookworm--as a slice in time of sid--as our bread-generating work system for quite some time now, the transition from sid to testing, the latter as a freshly installed system, is actually quite smooth. For casual users, it is probably not a good idea to install Testing on your machine. Maybe wait for another year or so. In the meantime, if anyone is interested in making contributions to this potentially great OS, s/he should probably consider making a persistent liveusb.

For Debian systems, making a persistent liveusb is quite easy. With an already formatted usb, it is probably faster than using the dd command to burn an iso onto a usb stick. Also, unlike the dd command, a good chunk of the usb stick can still be used.

Ed.: The key element in making a Debian-style persistent liveusb is an initial partitioning of the usb stick. For starters all we need are two partitions, a fat32 partition (4GB or more, no need for labeling but I always label it as "EFI" for easy mounting) and an ext4 partition, labeled "persistence" (could be any size, typically we give it 16GB, but this is an overkill). Then copy the content of the hybrid iso to the fat32 partition (I am using the rsync -r command to do the copying):
rsync -r --progress (mount point of the hybrid iso)/ /media/$USER/EFI/
If you are not interested in a persistent liveusb, this is enough to create a bootable usb. For persistence, only two small changes are needed.

1. The first change is to edit the grub.cfg file in the first (fat32) partition to add a persistence boot parameter:
linux /live/vmlinuz-6.1.0-7-amd64 boot=live components persistence quiet splash findiso=${iso_path}
2. Then designate the partition for persistence (for starters, designate the entire system):
sudo chmod 777 /media/$USER/persistence
cd /media/$USER/persistence
echo / union > persistence.conf

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