Scheduled Maintenance: We are aware of an issue with Google, AOL, and Yahoo services as email providers which are blocking new registrations. We are trying to fix the issue and we have several internal and external support tickets in process to resolve the issue. Please see: viewtopic.php?t=158230

 

 

 

[Thread Retired] Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

User discussion about Debian Development, Debian Project News and Announcements. Not for support questions.
Message
Author
sothis6881
Posts: 6
Joined: 2017-12-01 17:10
Has thanked: 5 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#81 Post by sothis6881 »

Anyone else having troubles installing via VirtualBox?

User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
Posts: 14114
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: London, England
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#82 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

@sothis6881, this isn't a support thread.

And VirtualBox is the worst virtualisation software around. Do yourself a favour and use something better.
deadbang

sothis6881
Posts: 6
Joined: 2017-12-01 17:10
Has thanked: 5 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#83 Post by sothis6881 »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: 2022-09-26 06:42 @sothis6881, this isn't a support thread.

And VirtualBox is the worst virtualisation software around. Do yourself a favour and use something better.
Not really helpful, but thanks anyway.

bin
Posts: 55
Joined: 2019-03-07 12:02
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#84 Post by bin »

I have been running Bookworm MATE vanilla Debian (Testing upgraded to Sid) and also on top of Sparkylinux (Testing upgraded to Sid) on 2 VMs.

Running Liquorix kernel on both, it's a honey and boy is it quick.

So far the only pain was a couple of days ago when libffi8 update was dud, but that was fixed v. quickly.

Good to see bits of MATE 1.27 making their way through as well. Just hoping that release dates will mesh so the whole thing makes it to Stable next year.

pwzhangzz
Posts: 420
Joined: 2020-11-11 17:42
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#85 Post by pwzhangzz »

Bookworm has upgraded gnome version to 43. This is not an easy upgrade (especially with regard to some gnome extensions), but our Debian heroes seem to have done it! This is an exciting upgrade and there are tons of things to get used to. Thanks, thanks, thanks!!!
Attachments
Screenshot from 2022-09-28 07-08-46.jpeg
Screenshot from 2022-09-28 07-08-46.jpeg (36.73 KiB) Viewed 6082 times

pwzhangzz
Posts: 420
Joined: 2020-11-11 17:42
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#86 Post by pwzhangzz »

Sid (which will be reincarnated into Bookworm next year) has upgraded its Linux kernel to the big 6.0:

ryzenv@L32v:~$ uname -a
Linux L32v 6.0.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.0.2-1 (2022-10-16) x86_64 GNU/Linux
ryzenv@L32v:~$ lsb_release -d
Description: Debian GNU/Linux bookworm/sid
ryzenv@L32v:~$

As per our upgrade sop, we are running this Big Six-O kernel on our VBox machine first, but expect it to be on our real metal test machine soon.

How exciting!

pwzhangzz
Posts: 420
Joined: 2020-11-11 17:42
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#87 Post by pwzhangzz »

Tried the 6.0 kernel on our test machine (MSI Bravo 15 gaming laptop with AMD Ryzen 5600H CPU and Radeon RX 5500M GPU ). Pretty smooth. I am using this machine to take and post the attached screenshot.
Attachments
Screenshot from 2022-10-17 13-55-51.png
Screenshot from 2022-10-17 13-55-51.png (59 KiB) Viewed 5866 times

User avatar
dilberts_left_nut
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5343
Joined: 2009-10-05 07:54
Location: enzed
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#88 Post by dilberts_left_nut »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2022-10-17 21:41 Sid (which will be reincarnated into Bookworm next year)
That's not the way it works.
Testing will become Stable, with whatever it contains when frozen, but Sid always remains Sid.
AdrianTM wrote:There's no hacker in my grandma...

pwzhangzz
Posts: 420
Joined: 2020-11-11 17:42
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#89 Post by pwzhangzz »

Of course as a rolling release, sid will always be sid and will always remain "unstable". :mrgreen: But in real life, we are using Debian as our everyday work OS, and if we had a choice we would always use a stable version, at least that will make our employees feel more "stable". No pun intended.

However, there are truly revolutionary and critically important advances both in hardware and software (especially with regard to AMD Ryzen CPU, Radeon GPU, the in-kernel amdgpu driver, and gnome 4x) that are occurring between Bullseye and Bookworm. There is also another issue that is uniquely specific to us: the version of ibus-libpinyin in Bullseye, 1.12, is not stable. Instead of playing with preferences and mixed repos, we decided to go with the precursor of Debian 12, or Bookworm. This is what Sid represents now, before Bookworm comes out.

When Bookworm comes out, we probably (and hopefully) will have no need for Sid. Gone. Kaput. And, again hopefully, we will be able to use Bookworm for a long long time. This is why we are so looking forward to Debian 12. Debian has probably the best development model among all the OSes: a two-year cycle of stable releases, coupled with a rolling release that is intimately and "interchangeably" interwoven with an upcoming stable release. I am sure many experts on this forum will be able be articulate those Debian advantages much better than I ever could.

User avatar
canci
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 2497
Joined: 2006-09-24 11:28
Has thanked: 135 times
Been thanked: 134 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#90 Post by canci »

Sid is not really a rolling release. It's important to keep that in mind, especially since during package freeze, Sid might not get many new packages for a long time.
Image Stable / Asus VivoBook X421DA / AMD Ryzen 7 3700U / Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx (Picasso) / 8 GB RAM / 512GB NVMe

READ THIS:

* How to Post a Thread Here
* Other Tips and Great Resources

pwzhangzz
Posts: 420
Joined: 2020-11-11 17:42
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#91 Post by pwzhangzz »

canci wrote: 2022-10-18 11:38Sid might not get many new packages for a long time.
Exactly! That's why we would stop using sid and switch to the new release (reincarnation), or testing, when the latter is about to come out. After things get settled down again we can switch back to sid if so desired. Sid is not a true rolling release; this is actually one of the best (but undocumented) features of Debian. For us anyway, it is always a pertinent idea to restart the sid cycle from the new stable release, rather than continuing from the temporarily dormant sid. Right or wrong, we have our reasons and many sid old hands may disagree.

Some packages are not in testing (for example, VirtualBox), thus we try to avoid fully switching to it except using the non-free hybrid weekly-built LiveUSB to help testing.

pwzhangzz
Posts: 420
Joined: 2020-11-11 17:42
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#92 Post by pwzhangzz »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2022-10-18 16:40Some packages are not in testing (for example, VirtualBox)
The main difference between Testing and Sid/Unstable lies in their "contrib" repositories. Many (or at least some) commercial vendors maintain their packages in Sid/Unstable (which, ironically is actually a well-established "stable" distribution) but not in Testing. Since our desktops depend so much on contrib, we almost never use Testing on our everyday machines except using the weekly-built non-free hybrid LiveUSB to help testing the Testing a few months before a new Stable release is about to be released.

? ? ?

pwzhangzz
Posts: 420
Joined: 2020-11-11 17:42
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#93 Post by pwzhangzz »

VirtualBox 7.0 has been out for almost two months now, Debian developers are patient enough to wait until 7.0.4 to have come out to upload the VBox 7.0 packages to the repository. (Debian Sid developers are usually very diligent in updating VirtualBox packages, typically within one day after Oracle's own updates.)

Test runs using existing Debian 11 (Bullseye) and 12 (current incarnation of Sid) VBox machines appear to be OK, actually they appear to be substantially snappier on VBox 7.0. Probably due to improved virtual video driver.

However, upgrade of Sid vm in VBox 7.0 resulted in a blank screen with a blinking cursor at the top left corner right after the gdm boot screen during a restart. I created another VBox machine (by copying a stock Sid vm), did the same upgrades, rebooted, and this failure was repeatable. I tried to use mini/netboot isos to install Testing and Sid on VBox 7.0, both installations failed (something like the included kernel is not compatible with those in the archive). I also went back to a previous snapshot, it also showed similar boot problem. Can't go back to previous snapshot? This is pretty strange.

Updates on the Debian 11 VBox machine has no problem. Again, the vm appears to run much smoother on VBox 7.0. Guest Additions can be installed automatically, too. Nice.
Attachments
Screenshot from 2022-11-30 20-01-47.resized.png

Bulkley
Posts: 6382
Joined: 2006-02-11 18:35
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#94 Post by Bulkley »

Does bookworm have backward compatibility for deprecated programs? I depend on Dayplanner to organize my non-computing life. I have not found any substitute that I like. Dayplanner requires an older version of Python and simply won't work on Debian 11+. I'd rewrite it if I could but that's over my head.

I will stay with Debian 10 until I can use Dayplanner on newer versions. Is there any sandbox method?

User avatar
sunrat
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6382
Joined: 2006-08-29 09:12
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 456 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#95 Post by sunrat »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2022-12-03 21:12I tried to use mini/netboot isos to install Testing and Sid on VBox 7.0, both installations failed (something like the included kernel is not compatible with those in the archive). I also went back to a previous snapshot, it also showed similar boot problem.
As a diligent Sid user, you should check for bug reports and create one if none exist.

Have you tried KVM/QEMU maybe with virt-manager? Much better VM solution.
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
Remember to BACKUP!

dlu2021
Posts: 197
Joined: 2021-08-13 19:55
Location: Minnesota
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#96 Post by dlu2021 »

Bulkley wrote: 2022-12-03 22:06 Does bookworm have backward compatibility for deprecated programs? I depend on Dayplanner to organize my non-computing life. I have not found any substitute that I like. Dayplanner requires an older version of Python and simply won't work on Debian 11+. I'd rewrite it if I could but that's over my head.

I will stay with Debian 10 until I can use Dayplanner on newer versions. Is there any sandbox method?
Have you considered using Thunderbird's calendar?

pwzhangzz
Posts: 420
Joined: 2020-11-11 17:42
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#97 Post by pwzhangzz »

Bulkley wrote: 2022-12-03 22:06 Does bookworm have backward compatibility for deprecated programs? I depend on Dayplanner to organize my non-computing life. I have not found any substitute that I like. Dayplanner requires an older version of Python and simply won't work on Debian 11+. I'd rewrite it if I could but that's over my head.

I will stay with Debian 10 until I can use Dayplanner on newer versions. Is there any sandbox method?
Your story reminds me of a friend of mine who runs his company (about a couple of dozen total employees) entirely based on Python 2.7. The software industry, especially the Linux community, has been trying to force everyone to move to Python 3 for almost 15 years, but it's easier said than done. In the real world, this is simply impossible. Thus, my friend is moving his company's workloads (Ubuntu 12.10) to inside VirtualBox. On the surface, the computers may be running Debian Sid. But in its core, everyone is running Python 2.7 in a 10-year-old operating system.

Since you appear to be running Buster, I assume your hardware may not be adequately up-to-date? Thus, VBox may not be your desirable route (especially if you have a mechanical hd). I don't know whether you have tried Debian's unique "repository preference" feature? If you are ready to try Bullseye or Sid, at least theoretically you can include Buster repo in the /etc/apt/source.conf file, then specify that the Buster repo will be used only for the Dayplanner package.

In the past, I have also been interested in creating a sandboxed appimage to freeze a particular package corresponding to a particular (older) version of a distribution, and use it in other--mostly newer--versions. However, the application that I am interested (LibreOffice) already provides such appimages. Thus, I never saw a need, and never tried.

pwzhangzz
Posts: 420
Joined: 2020-11-11 17:42
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#98 Post by pwzhangzz »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2022-12-03 21:12 However, upgrade of Sid vm in VBox 7.0 resulted in a blank screen with a blinking cursor at the top left corner right after the gdm boot screen during a restart. I created another VBox machine (by copying a stock Sid vm), did the same upgrades, rebooted, and this failure was repeatable.
Looks like the problem is associated with the fact that I was using relatively dated sid installations (both host and guest) to do the sid VBox vm upgrade. I tried the same upgrade on a different (physical) machine in which I have been doing more diligent updates (again, for both the host and the guest), the process went very smoothly. Everything works. Kudos to Debian Developers who have done a truly incredible job!

I exported this sid vbox vm ("appliance") on the second machine to an ova file in a flash drive then imported it to the (previously failed) first machine. Voila! Everything now works (on both machines).
vbox_20221206.resized.jpg

pwzhangzz
Posts: 420
Joined: 2020-11-11 17:42
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#99 Post by pwzhangzz »

Just noticed that Debian developers have added an emerald theme to the Sid default grub boot screen. Beautiful, but professional and subtle. No more ugly dark background.

It is nice to see Debian Sid developers are willing to break the tradition and add an artistic sense to this functionally great operating system!
Attachments
emerald.jpg

DasherPack
Posts: 6
Joined: 2022-08-01 17:56

Re: Look forward to Debian 12 "Bookworm"!

#100 Post by DasherPack »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2022-12-12 17:31 Just noticed that Debian developers have added an emerald theme to the Sid default grub boot screen. Beautiful, but professional and subtle. No more ugly dark background.

It is nice to see Debian Sid developers are willing to break the tradition and add an artistic sense to this functionally great operating system!
Got it on testing aswell. Props to Julie Taka for making the art for debian 12. She has made really good art for this version and the previous ones. I must say however, that previous versions also had grub themes, not sure why you say it's new. Pumped for the new release.

Post Reply