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NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
- Hallvor
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NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
We are keen to hear from new (=less than one year) Debian users to develop our Help, HowTo and Documentation content. If you have used Debian for less than a year, we ask you to answer which non-forum resources you have used the most. The information shall be used to further develop the resources to meet the users' needs.
Feel free to comment on what are the biggest challenges in finding and using available information, and also to suggest ideas about what would make further adaptation easier for you.
Feel free to comment on what are the biggest challenges in finding and using available information, and also to suggest ideas about what would make further adaptation easier for you.
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- kent_dorfman766
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
I totally get it but you are missing an option that I pound into people's heads: manpages!
Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Manpages vary quite a bit so early linux users may or may not be able to derive much benefit from them, which impacts usage I guess. At a pinch, I suppose they could be included in the "online guides" option in the poll since searching online for example for "man ls" will likely catch the manpage, but that's probably a stretch too far and they could be polled more clearly. The pages available through the info command on the other hand, which often carry more information than a corresponding man page don't appear so readily in online searches but are easily accessed from inside the distribution. Also inside the distro are the docs in /usr/share/doc. Evidently the poll isn't looking for these.kent_dorfman766 wrote: ↑2023-01-29 14:36 I totally get it but you are missing an option that I pound into people's heads: manpages!
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Manpages vary quite a bit so early linux users may or may not be able to derive much benefit from them
My how times have changed! My first exposure to a unix machine was "here is your user and password. Log in and then ls shows files, cd changes directories and man xxx tells about the commands. Have fun."
My how times have changed! My first exposure to a unix machine was "here is your user and password. Log in and then ls shows files, cd changes directories and man xxx tells about the commands. Have fun."
- canci
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
I personally don't think that most newbies naturally gravitate towards manpages. For one, there are so many other resources they would find first, and the other reason would be that, while some manpages are written very well and are accessible, others look like something out of Rain Man's personal diary and, at least in my case, made me feel less motivated to try out a command back when I started using Linux. I learned to appreciate and read them with time, but I still cringe at any manpage for a command that has hundreds of flags, bu where the dev couldn't be bothered to include an example section.
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
So we're debating it rather than surveying it. LOL
- Hallvor
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
I would love to have that as an option back in November, but it slipped my mind. My mistake, it should have been added. Having said that, the results of this poll are underwhelming. We are not anywhere near getting useful data, because the margin of error is through the roof. The lack of a single option is a problem, but the least of this poll's problem at present, as I see it.
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- canci
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Make a new poll then. What's stopping you?
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Learning DEBIAN ?
How did I learn to install … use Linux c.q. DEBIAN some ten years back as operating system on our laptops for daily use instead of MS Windows ?
At least not by having consulted the respective forums ! … I'm still firmly convinced that I would never have started it and would still be running Windows .
Where then ? Just by consulting the official sites of ditto distros , as simple as that .
Initiated with Linux Mint followed by LMDE to finally end up with DEBIAN (Buster > Bullseye) … the journey of common sense (travel is the best way to learn) ... Ubuntu has never been and will never be an option .
Of course, it was not always smooth sailing … always appealed to the forums involved in case of problems and so now that's Debian User Forums .
I don't know what DEBIAN ever was (doesn't interest me at all) but I can firmly state that since Buster, this operating system has evolved into an OS that, in terms of installation and user-friendliness, most of the Linux-based operating systems can take a whiff of .
I'm talking about learning ... not what's best to stay away from/don't get into or how to kill an operating system : https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
Non grata : anything not supported by Debian OOTB .
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
How did I learn to install … use Linux c.q. DEBIAN some ten years back as operating system on our laptops for daily use instead of MS Windows ?
At least not by having consulted the respective forums ! … I'm still firmly convinced that I would never have started it and would still be running Windows .
Where then ? Just by consulting the official sites of ditto distros , as simple as that .
Initiated with Linux Mint followed by LMDE to finally end up with DEBIAN (Buster > Bullseye) … the journey of common sense (travel is the best way to learn) ... Ubuntu has never been and will never be an option .
Of course, it was not always smooth sailing … always appealed to the forums involved in case of problems and so now that's Debian User Forums .
I don't know what DEBIAN ever was (doesn't interest me at all) but I can firmly state that since Buster, this operating system has evolved into an OS that, in terms of installation and user-friendliness, most of the Linux-based operating systems can take a whiff of .
I'm talking about learning ... not what's best to stay away from/don't get into or how to kill an operating system : https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
Non grata : anything not supported by Debian OOTB .
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Last edited by Fossy on 2023-01-31 00:18, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
We could do another poll, maybe lump everything together and ask for direct input instead?Hallvor wrote: ↑2023-01-30 15:40 I would love to have that as an option back in November, but it slipped my mind. My mistake, it should have been added. Having said that, the results of this poll are underwhelming. We are not anywhere near getting useful data, because the margin of error is through the roof. The lack of a single option is a problem, but the least of this poll's problem at present, as I see it.
Man pages
Online
Other
X:_______________ __________________ ____________________
Typo perfectionish.
"The advice given above is all good, and just because a new message has appeared it does not mean that a problem has arisen, just that a new gremlin hiding in the hardware has been exposed." - FreewheelinFrank
"The advice given above is all good, and just because a new message has appeared it does not mean that a problem has arisen, just that a new gremlin hiding in the hardware has been exposed." - FreewheelinFrank
- donald
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Just like the Free Hardware tread some are just here to agitate rather than contribute.
Typo perfectionish.
"The advice given above is all good, and just because a new message has appeared it does not mean that a problem has arisen, just that a new gremlin hiding in the hardware has been exposed." - FreewheelinFrank
"The advice given above is all good, and just because a new message has appeared it does not mean that a problem has arisen, just that a new gremlin hiding in the hardware has been exposed." - FreewheelinFrank
- canci
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Yeah, the LOL after the rather nit-picky argument sort of makes it seem a bit bad faith.
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Seriously? If this is how you react when somebody points out obvious flaws in one of your proposals or the options presented for a poll...
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Perhaps we do a direct ask to the effect of: Which resources have not worked from other on-line sources in the past that you would like to see addressed from a user level guide instead?
Typo perfectionish.
"The advice given above is all good, and just because a new message has appeared it does not mean that a problem has arisen, just that a new gremlin hiding in the hardware has been exposed." - FreewheelinFrank
"The advice given above is all good, and just because a new message has appeared it does not mean that a problem has arisen, just that a new gremlin hiding in the hardware has been exposed." - FreewheelinFrank
- Hallvor
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Unfortunately, I don't think a new poll would solve the problem of too little data. The poll has been open since November, and it is still far from being statistically reliable.
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
For me, the argument was a bit moot, since I don't think manpages will do much of a dent with users considered novice in the 2020s, so the flaw isn't as obvious.
Also, the user presented the argument in a slightly douchie tone, so it seems a bit bad faith, especially since we're talking about a data set of a handful of users. I don't think Donald's reservations towards such messeages is necessarily wrong. Maybe premature, but not unwarranted.
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Omitting an option for newbs who have managed to pick up the right end of the stick and consult manuals rather than 'tube videos and dubious blogs, however rare one might consider that to be, is a flaw nonetheless.
While I am trying not to give up on this board in disgust (again), if we're going to call the tone-police for something as innocuous as that comment, I expect I won't be staying long. This is rapidly becoming farcical.
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Debian manpages : https://manpages.debian.org/ ?
Sure , will have a look at it between the soup and the French fries .
For the rest , everything ok there with the under ounce in your ivory tower ?
Sure , will have a look at it between the soup and the French fries .
For the rest , everything ok there with the under ounce in your ivory tower ?
ASUS GL753VD / X550LD / K54HR / X751LAB ( x2 )
Bookworm12.5_Cinnamon / Calamares Single Boot installations
Firefox ESR / DuckDuckGo / Thunderbird / LibreOffice / GIMP / eID Software
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/cu ... so-hybrid/
Bookworm12.5_Cinnamon / Calamares Single Boot installations
Firefox ESR / DuckDuckGo / Thunderbird / LibreOffice / GIMP / eID Software
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/cu ... so-hybrid/
- FreewheelinFrank
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
Please avoid snarky comments. As per forum rules, comments should be personally respectful.Fossy wrote: ↑2023-02-01 07:09 Debian manpages : https://manpages.debian.org/ ?
Sure , will have a look at it between the soup and the French fries .
For the rest , everything ok there with the under ounce in your ivory tower ?
Only on the Debian forum could a discussion of man pages descend to personal animosity.
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Re: NEW USERS ONLY: What non-forum resources have you used the most when learning Debian?
canci and myself are, despite having "section moderator" under our handle/name, just regular users outside our domain, so there is no policing involved at all. donald is the only one in this thread with any power, and I don't see him telling you what you can and can't do. You are entirely free to state your opinion, as you should be. But you also have to tolerate others saying something you don't agree with.
Having said that, this thread is what we Norwegians call a storm in a glass of water. A lot of fuss about very little.
As I wrote above, the option should have been added in November, but it was not discovered until the end of January. During those two months, there was an astounding number of 11 - eleven(!) - users answering the poll. Not enough people have answered this poll to give any useful statistical data (reliability). The problem still stands - how can we find out what non-forum resources new members use the most? Any ideas?
What can we learn from this?
* An open poll (or an open review of a coming poll) does not necessarily mean that problems of validity will be found in a timely manner.
* Direct input (=give your answer in the thread) may be preferable to a limited number of options if you have a reasonable number of respondents.
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