Differnece between live and regular ISO

[compis3]

I have tried installation of both debian-11.6.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso and the debian-live-11.6.0-amd64-kde.iso why is there a difference ?

The live version does not install with a root password (seprate from the user password) but the kde.iso version does have a root password. Why the difference isn't the live only to allow the user to try the system before installing but it should be exactly the same installtion wise as the non live version ?

[Hallvor]

The live version does not have a separate root password by default because it is a testing environment that should be easily accessible.

You should be prompted to set a root password when installing both versions. Did it go through the install without setting up a root password or sudo?

[p.H]

The live version does not install with a root password (seprate from the user password) but the kde.iso version does have a root password.

It is not clear what you mean by "version". The live image you mention is the KDE flavour, so how would it be different from itself ?
Also, it unclear whether you are talking about
a) the live session booted from the live image
b) the installation done from the live session desktop
c) the installation done from the live image boot menu
d) the installation done from the installation image

c) and d) use the same classic installer and offer the same options, allowing to set a root password or not. b) uses a different installer (Calamares). I do not know which options it offers but they might be different from the classic installer. a) does not install anything.

[kayenta8]

I've run into the same problem trying to install Debian Bullseye 11.6 from verified live images (with Calamares, both Cinnamon and MATE). There is never a request to establish a root password in either flavor. Furthermore, I'm not able to do the initial boot because root access is blocked and the console can't be opened. I'm glad to know this isn't a problem with my system, but its frustrating not to be informed of this when choosing an image for downloading. Incidentally, I've also installed Linux Mint Debian Edition and Ubuntu Edition in the past without running into this problem, so its certainly possible to set up the Debian live images with root access allowed. I'll post again if I have the same problem with the net.iso installation. Thanks!

[Hallvor]

The netinstall should be fine. I reinstalled the system on one of my laptops after changing SSD drives just a couple of weeks ago.

[p.H]

I'm not able to do the initial boot because root access is blocked and the console can't be opened.

Can you elaborate ? Boot has nothing to do with root login.

[kayenta8]

My problem is that when I do the initial boot after installation, next is a dialog box asking for a password. I've tried multiple installations and it always returns "Incorrect password . . . please try again", and that's as far as it gets. I tried booting in Rescue Mode and found that root access was blocked. I assumed that getting root privileges would help get the password entry verified. All of those first installations were done using a live-USB download -- that was before I saw this recent post explaining that these always have blocked root privileges.
Now I've installed using the net.iso, and the same failure with the password has happened again. I found also that my Atheros wireless network adapter lacks 7 firmware for installation, so I repeated the installation with firmware-net.iso. That firmware package still lacks 2 drivers, so I had to go to the ethernet to finish the installation. I was able to enter passwords for both root and user and install MATE environment. When I tried to boot after this, it failed again at the password log-in.

So my assumption about root access that triggered your question was wrong, obviously. But my questions now are: why I'm not able to boot the installation? Could it be my choice of passwords that use symbols (specifically a dollar sign $) ? And how do I find and install those missing Atheros kernel modules to be able to use the wireless card?
System: Dell 3780 laptop / presently dual-booting Mint Deb Ed 5 (Elsie) and Mint Ubuntu Ed 21 (Vera) as a back-up. (I'm trying to migrate to an all-Debian system). More system info available if needed. Maybe I've gone off-topic a bit in this thread, but the topic is (or was) exactly what I was searching for on the forum. Thanks for looking into this.

[kayenta8]

Never mind about the question about those Atheros modules - I found an answer from 4 years ago on this forum about ath10k/pre-cal-pci-oooo:20:00.0.bin and ath10k/cal-pci-oooo:20:00.0.bin

"These are pre-calibration and calibration files; they are optional, and as you’ve noticed, the device can work fine without them. Calibration data can be obtained in a variety of ways (from EEPROM in the device, from files on disk, from device tree information). I get the impression the “firmware” files are intended for very specific configurations (where the PCI location would be fixed); so basically their purpose appears to be to provide a means for systems integrators to provide their own calibration data."

I can't verify that the network card works well in Bullseye without these files, since I can't boot into the system. I noticed that the same files are listed as missing on my Mint Deb Ed 5, and indeed the card works fine.

[p.H]

why I'm not able to boot the installation?

You are able to boot the installation. You are not able to open a session. Totally different issue.

Could it be my choice of passwords that use symbols (specifically a dollar sign $) ?

This is easy to verify. Do not use symbols in passwords.

[BBQdave]

The netinstall should be fine. I reinstalled the system on one of my laptops after changing SSD drives just a couple of weeks ago.

+1 Netinstall (if you have a good internet connection) gives you choice of desktop environments and up to date install.

My experience, leave root password blank locks root account and defaults to first user set up with sudo. Install, boot into system and administer system with sudo.

[compis3]

If I wanted to create a root password using debian-live-11.6.0-amd64-kde.iso can i ?

[p.H]

Netinstall (if you have a good internet connection) gives you choice of desktop environments and up to date install.

Isn't it the same with any other installation or live image ?

eave root password blank locks root account and defaults to first user set up with sudo. Install, boot into system and administer system with sudo.

sudo does not work if you need to boot in rescue mode or the user session fails for any reason. This is why I advise against not setting a root password.

If I wanted to create a root password using debian-live-11.6.0-amd64-kde.iso can i ?

Sure. Either use the classic installer from the boot menu (notthe installer from the live session desktop) or set the root password with passwd after the installation.

[kayenta8]

Failed again at the session log-in screen - "Incorrect password. Please try again." I re-installed firmware-net.iso as before and specified passwords for root and user that did not contain symbols. MATE desktop seemed to install okay. The installer again wasn't able to link to the wireless router, so I used ethernet to successfully finish the installation.
I'm out of ideas about why this fails every time at the session log-in. Any suggestions? Is there a way to tell if this is the root, or the desktop environment, that's failing? If I can get to a terminal on booting, how can I find the password files to verify them? And if they're as I entered them during installation, what to look at next to find out why they don't work? Thanks for any help .

[BBQdave]

p.H, I like that the netinstall is smaller iso and provides package choices with up to date install.
The other iso I downloaded was live Debian Gnome, it was nice to test before install, but it was only Gnome.

I have not searched iso's beyond that, because that is my use - Gnome

[Hallvor]

A couple of things to check:
Have you used the correct keyboard layout?
Check the logs for errors regarding password and authentication. Perhaps it can give you a hint about why things go wrong.

If you have created a root password, it can be reset. When you have done that, you can reset your user password.

The passwords are stored in /etc/shadow, but they are hashed and not written in clear text.

[p.H]

You can switch to a text console (tty2, tty3...) login prompt with Ctrl+Alt+F2, F3...

[compis3]

BBQdave, does the netinstall give more options than the ISO install ? I would expect that the ISO install will install all required system requirements and allow for updates there by giving the same results.

[compis3]

p.H, I like that the netinstall is smaller iso and provides package choices with up to date install.
The other iso I downloaded was live Debian Gnome, it was nice to test before install, but it was only Gnome.

I have not searched iso's beyond that, because that is my use - Gnome

BBQdave, does the netinstall give more options than the ISO install ? I would expect that the ISO install will install all required system requirements and allow for updates there by giving the same results.

[BBQdave]

BBQdave, does the netinstall give more options than the ISO install?

The netinstall by default has "Debian base" selected and "Gnome" selected for install. You can unselect that and choose from a list of Desktop Environments and other software combinations.

I may misunderstand "Debian base" but I would think that is the core of the system and then you add the Desktop Environment you like. So I would recommend as regular user system (not a server) "Debian base" + "Desktop Environment" such as Gnome, KDE, Mint, and so on

The other iso's were desktop specific, such as Debian Gnome, Debian KDE, Debian Mint and so on. There may be an "everything" iso that is the same as the Netinstall iso, but I do not recall seeing it - and an "everything" iso would be huge to download.
The desktop specific (such as Debian Gnome) is a live iso, so you can test use and hardware before you install.

[kayenta8]

(SOLVED) Well, that was embarrassingly easy to solve the problem of the password failure. I was poking around in log files in Recovery Mode, specifically /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log when I noticed that the Greeter module was starting authentication with my username (notmy password). The ightdm module gets its input from the Pluggable Authentication Module (PAM) and that's where the failure originated. When I rebooted and reached the Greeter dialog box, I entered my username, pressed Enter, and then entered my password. It worked - now I'm in Bullseye MATE. BTW, the only way to get root privileges is to go into Recovery Mode. Using TTY4 in the Normal Mode doesn't permit root privileges.
Thanks to p.H. and Hallvor for pointing me in the right direction.