[Solved] Just installed Debian 12.1.. Hibernation works 80% of the times and a weird Grub line..

[Marie SWE]

Installing Stretch drivers in Bookworm was bound to cause problems. You now have a Frankendebian - https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian

It may have been safer to install the Nvidia driver with sgfxi - https://smxi.org/

You just might have saved a debian machine.
I will look in in it tomorrow, as I'm boiling inside at the moment.
Thanks for the tip.

[undesign]

Disks: Primary Disk SSD Micron 256GB Three partitions: / swap(32GB) and Timeshift-backup.... Secondary Disk: 1TB HDD Three partitions: OEM-Recovery, Secondary-OS (win7ESU) and Data.. and one DVD-RW

The intermittent hibernation malfunctioning happens when you do not have enough swap do store the programs in RAM minus the cache. But you have 32 gigs of swap (this means automatically that you manually created the partitions) and 12 Gb of RAM, so it should be no problem.

Please post here the output of:

Code: Select all

inxi -v5 --filter

If you do not have it installed, just install it with:

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apt install inxi

Also, it is not clear for me what exactly means that you didn't finish the Debian installation. Maybe you didn't finish the actual configuration, but the installation was done. Otherwise, like it was already stated, you have a Debian that is neither 11 or 12 version.

[Marie SWE]

Disks: Primary Disk SSD Micron 256GB Three partitions: / swap(32GB) and Timeshift-backup.... Secondary Disk: 1TB HDD Three partitions: OEM-Recovery, Secondary-OS (win7ESU) and Data.. and one DVD-RW

The intermittent hibernation malfunctioning happens when you do not have enough swap do store the programs in RAM minus the cache. But you have 32 gigs of swap (this means automatically that you manually created the partitions) and 12 Gb of RAM, so it should be no problem.

Please post here the output of:

Code: Select all

inxi -v5 --filter

If you do not have it installed, just install it with:

Code: Select all

apt install inxi

Also, it is not clear for me what exactly means that you didn't finish the Debian installation. Maybe you didn't finish the actual configuration, but the installation was done. Otherwise, like it was already stated, you have a Debian that is neither 11 or 12 version.

Sorry for not responding

I put the computer away as i got to irritated and i didn't want to trash my laptop out of anger.. Then in October o got some bad news about my health, so i forgot to look in here to update about the install.. as computers became insignificant, so to speak.

as for the row i wrote: (((This one had LMDE3 on a HDD but i put in an SSD now for Debian to speed up the computer a bit. I started with installing Debian11 but i realize 12 is soon out, so i never finish that install as summer was coming and i don't need the laptop until September again. ))))
what i meant was i never finished the debian 11 install as installing an OS ISO is not to install a complete working system. as you still need your programs, settings and so on before you have a complete install.
So that was/is what i meant with not a finish install.

as for the hibernation failing.. Debians drop of older Nvidia drivers was the problem.. i had to install legacy drivers, and sadly it was more time and i expected.
Now i have another problem with polkit service going zombie.. I have another thread about that.


.

But the solution on this thread was to install older drivers. as the nouveau driver is crap(the problem) and should not be used..
So if someone else have the same problem and uses older Nvidia graphic.. Install the old legacy nvidia drivers and remove the nouveau driver.

I will mark this thread as solved

[Aki]

Hello,

Glad to hear from you again.

the solution on this thread was to install older drivers

I'm happy you got sorted.

the nouveau driver is crap(the problem) and should not be used..

I kindly disagree with your statement quoted above. It is sometimes easy to fall into the error of harshly criticising what is received free (as in freedom). Many developers and enthusiastic users spend hours of their time making it work and making it better. Debian/Linux users should (EDIT: not) depend on a manufacturer who doesn't disclose how its hardware works and stops supporting older models.

So if someone else have the same problem and uses older Nvidia graphic.. Install the old legacy nvidia drivers and remove the nouveau driver.

I would be wise not to generalise.

I will mark this thread as solved

Thanks.

All the best.

[Marie SWE]

Hello,

Nice to hear from you again.

the solution on this thread was to install older drivers

I'm happy you got sorted.

the nouveau driver is crap(the problem) and should not be used..

I kindly disagree with your statement quoted above. It is sometimes easy to fall into the error of harshly criticising what is received free (as in freedom). Many developers and enthusiastic users spend hours of their time making it work and making it better. Debian/Linux users should depend as little as possible on a manufacturer who doesn't disclose how its hardware works and stops supporting older models.

So if someone else have the same problem and uses older Nvidia graphic.. Install the old legacy nvidia drivers and remove the nouveau driver.

I would be wise not to generalise.

I will mark this thread as solved

Thanks.

All the best.

Hi Aki

I was only in here as i had a problem on my old hardware i still run Debian on.
Sadly I'm about to give up Linux as daily driver, as it is just to unstable/unreliable and to much problems for my usage.
I will still use Debian in my old hardware that can't handle Windows LTSC and i dont need for working on and i will also use Linux on my next server I'm about to get.. as Linux is still superior on the server side. I just wish i was as good on the client desktop side too. But i hope it will get there with more time as Linux feels promising. So i wont give up Linux totally, only as daily driver.

I saw this became a loooong post, so i tried to write short paragraphs to make it some easier to read. I hope you have a good chair to sit in and a good cup of coffee or tea at hand.


oh, really? are one of the developers of nouveau driver as you took offense?
I'm sorry ... but for me it easy.. if it works its good.. if it dont work, then it is not good.
it is kind of black and white for me, as i dont have computers as a hobby and like to play around with the OS's several hours a day or once a month to keep it up and running.
I have an OS to be able to work with my computer as my programs dont run without an OS .. like a car cant be used if it dont have a working engine... you install it once, you make services as the car with the updates, and then you just use it for driving to work, go shopping, and get stuff or visit people.

and yes i know Linux kernel drops support for hardware faster then windows.. i do know that.... but.. a solution on that is to make an easy driver install deb packages in the debian stable repo and point to them in the install document to just do an sudo apt install nvidia.xxx.legacy somthing.
Or.. on the download page for the debian ISO do as microsoft with win11.. This version will not support older hardware then bla-bla-bla. or what it might be..
It becomes kind of misleading to read you only need....

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A Pentium 4, 1GHz system is the minimum recommended for a desktop system.
Table 3.2. Recommended Minimum System Requirements
Install Type 	RAM (minimum) 	RAM (recommended) 	Hard Drive
No desktop 	256 megabytes 	512 megabytes 	4 gigabytes
With Desktop 	1 gigabytes 	2 gigabytes 	10 gigabytes

But they forget to mention that you will not have driver support on so old hardware that have a P4 1GHz cpu on the motherboard.
My other test laptop with 1st gen i5 CPU and 6GB ram with Radeon graphic works with win10 and all drivers works default. It do not work with Debian11 or 12. So yes i do know windows is better on backward compatibility
On my laptop with Intel Core i3-2350M CPU and 12GB RAM i get this error that my computer is to slow. and that one is much faster then Pentium 4, 1GHz

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[ 10811.793] (EE) event6  - ETPS/2 Elantech Touchpad: client bug: event processing lagging behind by 31ms, your system is too slow

I think Debian needs to update the specs for minimal and recommended requirements


oh-nooo...
as for the "it is free argument"..
okay lets go there, as you brought it up... and you might not like what i will say then.

Grab another cup of coffee and also grab an Aspirin to prevent to much headache when finally you come to the end.. and dont lynch me to hard afterwards. :hug:


If it is free.... okay so if its free then we all should accept it wont work as good/reliable as Windows or Mac OS does as they are payed?

If so, then all different community's/forums should accept that win+mac are better then linux as they are payed for.... and linux users and also kind of the developers can not take offense if some people calls linux desktop/laptop distros for a Hobby OS you only use at home to play around with.. so if its free its not for real then? is that what you are saying? (i saw on Mintforums someone called linux a hobby OS.).... so it is not my words okay so dont lynch me for that statement as it is not my words.

A lot of people in here and on other distro forums say: Linux for desktop/laptop usage is a really good OS for home office and small business usage and is stable and reliable and it also works on really old hardware as an P4 1GHz with 2GB ram. I say at least an 4th Gen intel CPU (or equal AMD) and 8 or 16GB of ram is recommended.. but that is another thing
Okay, so when they say that... and if they really mean what they are saying... then yeah it is okay to criticize when things dont work as advertised/promised if i and others really needed a stable and reliable system to do our work on.

If i work daytime at a car repair shop as a professional and i fix your car for free on my spare time after work and then your car break down in the middle of the dessert.. they you can't criticize me for the car broke down on you, as i did the work one hour after we closed the car shop and it was free?
Yes i do think it is okay for you to criticize me then, if i did a poor job on your car so it broke down on you.


I know i have to high demands and expectations of a operating system, as i demand/expect an OS to work as advertised/promised, as i demand my car engine to work if i get me a new car....
if there is known issues with the car engine or OS's so that it wont work all the time... then it should be advertised that this car engine/OS is not 100% reliable.. so-do-not-use-this, for important things... so you then know if you do need something that is reliable to drive thousands of miles/run for days and days, you know you dont use that car/OS those times, you use another one for the important driving and then the other one for the unimportant things.

Sadly since i got sicker a year ago, i dont have the time to mess around for weeks or even hours to fix problems, so my demands on a stable reliable system became even higher now then it was just a year ago..
so sadly I am forced to reinstall all my newer machines with windows server2022 for desktop usage, as i need a system that is reliable 24/7 / 365days a year... Windows LTSC is just to sick expensive when you have less then 20 computers and you can only buy the licenses if you have a business..
So server2022 and re-tweak all settings for desktop usage and you have windows LTSC machine for office usage with security updates/support up to 2031 for around $200-300/system.. yeah it is not cheap, but windows enterprise LTSC prices makes those $200-300 look cheap.
I will still use debian on my living room laptop and an old desktop for emails and some forum browsing and other non important web browsing.. as it dont do anything if the system crashes in a middle of a sentence.

I switched to Linux 2018 as win7 became EOL in 2020 as win10/11 home/pro/enterprise is a rolling distributions and all rolling distributions is just crap when you need a stable system thet never changes on updates(that goes for Linux rolling distros too). and win LTSC is just to expensive if you even can by it as they only sell to businesses...
And everyone told me: Linux is the best, it is more stable then windows and it just works and you will never regret switching to linux....
But no one.. no one, told me the downside of Linux for desktop and laptop usage even i did specify what i needed my system for.
I dont regret learning linux as server OS and for pentesting i really appreciate learning Linux.... But... i should have had the idea to re-tweak win-server as a desktop OS several years ago, to save me a lot of time and headache the last 5years.. sadly i just got that idea 3-4months ago from Chris Titus so it was not my idea but a good idea.. and it dont work on hardware slower then 4/6th gen Intel so my old have to run win7 that is offline computers, and my old online computers that i dont work with will run Debian... and with Xfce as i dont have the time to learn anything new.


So the it's free argument might work for home users that don't do important things with their computers and like to tweak around as a computer interest/hobby.
I have paid for windows and software since the mid 90's and yes I am willingly to pay for linux OS's and programs if that makes it better and more stable.
As for the open source VS close source thingi...... I'm sorry, but i have never cared about that.... as i dont know jack about programming and coding.. so even if i see the code in front of me, i dont know what it does anyway, or if it contains backdoor's and bad stuff.. i just have to trust the Linux developers for saying it is good code, as i have to trust other closed source software company's it is good code... and i dont really-really trust anyone at that level, i monitor all network traffic and i block everything that i dont think should have internet access.

You can not play the its free card just when it suites you... either is a real thing even for home office/small business usage and then should be a reliable OS... or... it's a home OS for fun usage things that dont need to be reliable and should then be advertised as such if it is so.
Free or payed if there is problems, it should be okay to criticize when it dont work if its meant to work for stable reliable home office or small business usage.
I would never complain if i had used Debian Testing or Sid as i know they are unstable.


I told you you would not like what i had to say about the "its free argument"

I hope you didn't got to much of a headache after reading my evil post. :hug:
I have been re-reading this for two days or if its three days now.. just to be sure i didn't write anything in the heat of the moment... My bad english is as it is, i can't do anything about that one though.

Now i will reed what i have written two or four more times before clicking on the [Submit] button.
I hope you wont lynch me to much. :hug:

Have a nice Sunday.
//Marie

[Aki]

Hello,

If I understand your previous post correctly, you are frustrated with the performance and stability of Linux for your specific hardware and needs. Therefore, you are considering installing Windows for your primary desktop use, which seems like a good choice for you.

You can still help by using the https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/installation-report package to report your observations to the Debian project about your hardware and software issues.

All the best.

[Marie SWE]

Hello,

If I understand your previous post correctly, you are frustrated with the performance and stability of Linux for your specific hardware and needs. Therefore, you are considering installing Windows for your primary desktop use, which seems like a good choice for you.

You can still help by using the https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/installation-report package to report your observations to the Debian project about your hardware and software issues.

All the best.

Hi again
So you didn't lynch me, i thank you for that. :hug:

My first biggest frustration and headache with Linux for desktop/client usage since 2018 have been.... windows-Linux networking.. Its a nightmare to get it to keep on working.. it stops working after a while even you dont change a thing.. i spent weeks and weeks reading on samba.org back in 2018 and also in late 2020.. and the main problem is, it has a bug that even now 5years later isn't fixed.

The second frustration was to make it stable to run over a long period of time.. it always crashed or got zombie processes after 100 to 150days of uptime..
This was both with Mint, LMDE and Debian 10. I never used Debian11 as debian12 was just a few month away when my Debian10 install started to act up to much and i hate to install computers more then absolutely necessary. I had that as a daytime job in the early 00's and i have easily installed over 1000+ computers and workstations.. so i hate installing them even nowadays. call it post traumatic stress disorder

The third frustration was how it handles memory overcome and swap and it always ended up in swapdeath / disk I/O trashing so the computer froze up for everything from 30seconds to 30+minutes. i think the worst i have experienced on one system was two hours... and i had to save a really-really important document so i could not just do a hard shutdown and walk away.
This also made hibernating a system that had 90% ram usage and 5GB Swap usage on a HDD a nightmare as it could take up to 20minutes before the process was finished and the computer was off.
Fun fact. this laptop with an sata3 SSD is 15seconds slower from clicking hibernate to it shuts down , then my win7 machine with an HDD Sata2
I dont blame Debian or Mint or other distros.. Its simple.. Linux is build for server usage.. not desktop usage.. and a server has 10times the RAM of a desktop/laptop and one or several Raid SAS arrays with a lot faster read/write and it has a full duplex instead of Sata that only has simplex. So it is not strange the kernel gets a heart attack working with 8GB ram and a Sata HDD.


Then the last frustration that is on me.
I have over 30years of experience of microsoft systems i have worked with computers administrations and network installations, so solving a problem should not take more then an hour tops.. most often just 10-20minutes..
So me just having 5years of Linux and no schooling as i have on Windows is not fair to compare i know..
But the frustration is still there... it took so long time to solve simple problems as there is so much old documentation online that dont apply on modern distros.... and when you dont have half arch wiki in your head and know all magic words and packages.... and on top it is so few Linux users so when asking to get a hint in the right direction can take days as there is only a few that really know how Linux tics and its core.. so most often its easier to just reinstall the computer instead of solving the problem.. as you will save days on downtime.. and downtime is bad for me as i work with research so i need my computers to run flawless even five month from now without the need for maintaining the system to be able to keep it running.


I have learned to keep a Linux server stable with docker containers running 24/7.. But not desktops and laptops.
and now my time is out on the learning new stuff part, as my health makes me prioritize my time i have.
So going back to windows is a safe card as i know, i really know i can set up a system within two hours that will run stable for 24/7 365days.
So that is why i go back to windows.. I need stable systems and my time to learn is sadly up.



Edit
To make a point on a thing that just happen..
I have opensnitch and my workaround to restart on failure the service polkit.service just crashed my computer, so that didn't work as workaround.. after system reboot the GUI for opensnitch wont launch any longer. Not even a timeshift solved the phenomenon.
This is exactly what i mean with linux for dsktop usage being unstable... when not even a reinstall of opensnitch makes the GUI come back on boot or to be able to start the gui from menu.
So now I'm forced to start the gui as root as workaround... as i dont have time to look for the problem

[Aki]

Hello,

I have the impression that this discussion is over.

It is strange how sometimes the anomalies happen more often to the same people. Maybe the computer gremlin likes to make fun of the same people. :)

Considering how little time you can devote to troubleshoot Debian GNU/Linux (and all the time you have spent writing recent posts about it in several sub-forums), I would suggest you follow through on your stated intentions and embrace other operating systems.

Take care of yourself.

All the best.

[Marie SWE]

Hello,

I have the impression that this discussion is over.

It is strange how sometimes the anomalies happen more often to the same people. Maybe the computer gremlin likes to make fun of the same people.

Considering how little time you can devote to troubleshoot Debian GNU/Linux (and all the time you have spent writing recent posts about it in several sub-forums), I would suggest you follow through on your stated intentions and embrace other operating systems.

Take care of yourself.

All the best.

Hi again

I just dropped in to close all my open threads and put in a last post with what my solutions was... if someone read the thread in the future it has an conclusion in stead of just being one of those threads where the threads ends but the answer was never posted.
I hate those threads myself, so i try to avoid it so to speak.

But it seems as a few didn't appreciate the solution and a new discussion started instead in two threads.

as for my time on writing posts.. i use all ten fingers when i type, so I'm pretty fast, so i dont spend many minutes on a post like the ones above.. and i do that when i have a coffee brake and check my emails and stuff like that.
i have the same username over the whole internet, so you can see i have become inactive on every forum out there.. Mint, mint sweden, tenforum, elevenforums.
Depending of what the doctors say i might start closing down all accounts i have online so no one can hack them in the future.

Thanks and take care of yourself too.
//Marie


(Thread closed a second time)