Debian12 + PipeWire + ALSA + PulseAudio + A/V Receiver = lol wut?

[Psycho_Punk]

ello world, it is I, Psycho_Punk. This time with you will be beautiful.

I'm not new to the penguin. The penguin and I go back more than a decade. That said, I also don't think I'm a greybeard by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm hoping to attact "bodacious penguins". Those that wouldn't mind addressing Linux issues, Linux-based surround system issues (uh huh- I'm willing to bet the firmware on a majority of A/V Receivers is Linux), and general computing issues.

It's a long one, but I want you to have too much information, than too little. I respect your time!

I am a musician. I make music. I use a Behringer USB DAC for my studio-side of things.

I am a music enthusiast. I listen to lots of music. I play my playlists through VLC and occassionally Clementine.

The Behringer DAC has a nice set of studio-quality headphones jacked in.

The PC we're talking about is cabled via HDMI to the TV. The HDMI port on the TV that the PC uses is HDMI1.

The signal chain for is as follows:
HDMI_cable_a goes from PC's GFX (Graphics) --> Panny A/V 5.1 Receiver on jack "BD/DVD Player IN".
HDMI_cable_b goes from Panny A/V 5.1 Receiver on jack "Out" --> TV (HDMI1 port on the back of the TV). So, we have 2x "good quality, but absolutely not the best quality" HDMI cables in this setup.

I have, indeed, a 5.1 surround sound system. It worked fine with Deb12LTS until a few weeks ago. Then, with all the issues and strange happenings with my Debian12 system (the one we're talking about), I decided it was time to wipe everything, and give btrfs subvolumes a try, in a multi-boot system. That was last Sunday. Welp... I can't even get things right with Debian12, so I haven't gone further with the multi-boot.

And now that we have this all established... I'd like to give you the punk quote of the day: "Punk's not dead, it just deserves to die when it becomes another stale cartoon." -Jello Biafra, Dead Kennedys "Chicken___t Conformist" from their Bedtime for Democracy album.

Now we're jamming. Hotay, here we go. \m/


The issues with my Debian 12 PC + Surround System + DAC + Music Apps

I present to you Mone Risa. She's my cruel mistress. New PC build. Did it all myself, thank you very much. I know my way around computers. That's all I'll say.

Mone Risa details can be found here: https://flic.kr/p/2p4yj3G
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not going to bore you on old issues. I'm going to bore you on the issues at present.

• My Debian 12 behaves as if my LS (Left Surround) and RS (Right Surround) speakers, behind me, are just L and R speakers. The 5.1 setup is broken.
  So, for example, when you go to Debian Settings --> Sound --> Output section: HDMI GM206 High Def Audio Controller --> Configuration: Digital Surround 5.1 (HDMI) Output... and I click TEST...
  "Rear Right" plays thorugh front R speaker. "Rear Left" plays through front L speaker. The cabling to and from the Panny A/V Receiver, the speakers, and the PC hasn't changed. Full stop.

• I know that Debian uses both ALSA and PulseAudio for sound controllers (did I say that term right?). Which device uses which sound controller (PulseAudio/ALSA) I'm still trying to figure out. How can I generate a list of programs that use X, and a list of programs that use Y (X=ALSA Y=PulseAudio)?
  Here's the output of pactl list: https://flic.kr/p/2p4yYBb

• Clementine doesn't play through anything. No ideer what's up on this fresh installation.

Other helpful resources, in addition to the ones above:
1) ALSA Mixer: https://flic.kr/p/2p4zkB8
2) aplay: https://flic.kr/p/2p4sf5s

Now. If you'd be so kind as to reference what you'd like to help me out with so that I know which exact issue we're addressing... I'd be happily punk in drublic. THANKS IN ADVANCE, and I'm quite pleased with how my first post went! I'm humble in my knowledge of Linux and its quirks err... features! I am a Debian person. Love me .deb files, can't get enough of 'em.


Thank you for your time, and thank you for your pearls of wisdom. Some day, I want to grow up to be just like you, and help others out... because the Linux community is magnifique. Adieu! C'iao! Auf Wiedersehen! Tot zo! Oh... "Should I stay or should I go now?" - The Clash



******** UPDATE before POSTING ********
Had some VLC issues not playing through the Panny A/V surround system. VLC is using something I'm not all too familiar with, but can certainly research further: PipeWire Media Server. ALSA.
So VLC is now happily playing through my broken 5.1 Panny surround system. One issue down! But the speakers (Rear Left + Rear Right) still are treated as Front Left + Front Right)

[sunrat]

Can't quite discern what your issues are amongst all those words. Perhaps a TL:DR version would be better.
But I have to mention there is no such thing as Debian 12LTS, and won't be for a few years when Debian 12 becomes oldoldstable is superseded by Debian 14. There is another long topic recently explaining the term LTS in Debian is not the same as Arch or Ubuntu LTS. See - https://wiki.debian.org/LTS

[Psycho_Punk]

Lol... wut?

Here:

I'm not going to bore you on old issues. I'm going to bore you on the issues at present.

My Debian 12LTS behaves as if my LS (Left Surround) and RS (Right Surround) speakers, behind me, are just L and R speakers. The 5.1 setup is broken.
So, for example, when you go to Debian Settings --> Sound --> Output section: HDMI GM206 High Def Audio Controller --> Configuration: Digital Surround 5.1 (HDMI) Output... and I click TEST...
"Rear Right" plays thorugh front R speaker. "Rear Left" plays through front L speaker. The cabling to and from the Panny A/V Receiver, the speakers, and the PC hasn't changed. Full stop.

USB DAC (Behringer) is connected to a USB 3.x port on the PC. Then I have a pair of Beyerdynamic German-made studio headphones jacked into the Headphone doohickey of the DAC.
I know that Debian uses both ALSA and PulseAudio for sound controllers (did I say that term right?). Which device uses which sound controller (PulseAudio/ALSA) I'm still trying to figure out. Here's the output of pactl list: https://flic.kr/p/2p4yYBb

Clementine doesn't play through anything. No ideer what's up on this fresh installation.

But I really feel like a TL;DR post won't work for me. Rather than waste time back-and-forth, I wanted to give a detailed overview of my whole situation. You don't have to read it, if you don't want to, and uh... thanks for the help? I stand corrected that Bookworm isn't LTS yet. Thanks.

[sunrat]

So we have a better idea of your computer hardware/software, please install inxi and post the output from:

Code: Select all

inxi -ACSxxz

Also please post your pactl and aplay results as text files rather than video.

[Psycho_Punk]

Code: Select all

inxi -ACSxxz output is as follows:

inxi: command not found

And that's fine with me. If you want my computer hardware/software details... I guess you'll have to look at my post. Because I've supplied, what I feel, is a grand slam when it comes to sharing information about my cruel mistress, Mone Risa. Thanks for trying to help, but I don't think we're on the same page here. I respect you. Thanks for stopping by!

[mrmazda]

Inxi is one of the best all around troubleshooting information provision tools in the Linux world. Expect a lot of help requests to fail without using it when asked, or even if not asked.
https://smxi.org/docs/inxi-installation ... al-install

[Psycho_Punk]

Inxi is one of the best all around troubleshooting information provision tools in the Linux world. Expect a lot of help requests to fail without using it when asked, or even if not asked.
https://smxi.org/docs/inxi-installation ... al-install

Ok. Is it FOSS? Because it doesn't seem to be FOSS. I'm trying to stay FOSS in all things sysadmin here with this Mone Risa. I bend for some projects (multimedia, some codecs etc), but when it comes to the core system and tools that can harm my system... nah, I stay FOSS.

Now, to address your other point. If some people expect... expect me to install something that doesn't fit with my values and desires, on... my system, that I labored over? I'm cross. Ain't FOSS? What a LOSS. So uh... thank you, too, for your help with my post. The time with you, I knew, would be schön (Deutsch/German: beautiful). Called it in the first 3 lines of my post.

Taken from https://manpages.debian.org/bullseye/in ... .1.en.html here's an excerpt:

AUTHOR AND CONTRIBUTORS TO CODE

inxi is a fork of locsmif's very clever infobash script.

Original infobash author and copyright holder: Copyright (C) 2005-2007 Michiel de Boer aka locsmif

inxi version: Copyright (C) 2008-2021 Harald Hope

This man page was originally created by Gordon Spencer (aka aus9) and is maintained by Harald Hope (aka h2 or TechAdmin).

Initial CPU logic, konversation version logic, occasional maintenance fixes, and the initial xiin.py tool for /sys parsing (obsolete, but still very much appreciated for all the valuable debugger data it helped generate): Scott Rogers

Further fixes (listed as known):

Horst Tritremmel <hjt at sidux.com>

Steven Barrett (aka: damentz) - USB audio patch; swap percent used patch.

Jarett.Stevens - dmidecode -M patch for older systems with no /sys.

[mrmazda]

Inxi is FOSS. Some distros include it in a default install. Debian has historically only kept a current or recent version available in testing/sid, keeping old versions in releases, making it nearly crippled for those using stable, oldstable & oldoldstable by configuring it to disable its -U switch. Luckily, the disabling is via /etc/inxi.conf, which can be edited to re-enable -U, but it's a bother to explain in help forums, not directly related to the subject problem solving. Inxi versions increment often, typically anywhere between 4 weeks and 10 weeks, occasionally just a few days.

Code: Select all

# inxi -A --vs
inxi 3.3.29-00 (2023-08-15)
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 200 Series PCH HD Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
  API: ALSA v: k5.14.21-150500.55.19-default status: kernel-api
#

http://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/i/inxi/

[Psycho_Punk]

Nice nice! Thanks so much for this! I truly appreciate your help in this matter.

So I got a hit here: https://itsfoss.com/inxi-system-info-linux/

And I got hit here: https://fossbytes.com/get-linux-system- ... inxi-tool/

And I got a hit here: https://opensource.com/article/22/9/linux-inxi-command

Now we're cooking with Crisco (as the Americans say)! You're awesome.

Mk, I'll bite. I'm installing it right now.

... now is also a good time to mention I'm a bit of an infosec head. I don't like to publish certain information about my systems online. Attack vectors, OSINT, yadda yadda.

So... to you all, what specific, explicit information do you want about my system from inxi?

[sunrat]

... now is also a good time to mention I'm a bit of an infosec head. I don't like to publish certain information about my systems online.

the "z" option removes personally identifiable information from it's output.

[Psycho_Punk]

Thanks sunrat! Ok. So... inxi -ACSxxz

Code: Select all

System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-10-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
    Desktop: GNOME v: 43.6 tk: GTK v: 3.24.37 wm: gnome-shell dm: GDM3
    Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
CPU:
  Info: 16-core model: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Zen 3+
    rev: 2 cache: L1: 1024 KiB L2: 8 MiB L3: 64 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 2587 high: 3975 min/max: 2200/5943 boost: enabled cores:
    1: 3974 2: 2200 3: 3971 4: 2200 5: 2200 6: 2200 7: 2200 8: 3975 9: 2200
    10: 2200 11: 2200 12: 2200 13: 3975 14: 2200 15: 2200 16: 2200 17: 3970
    18: 2200 19: 2200 20: 2200 21: 2200 22: 2200 23: 2200 24: 2200 25: 3975
    26: 2200 27: 2200 28: 2200 29: 3975 30: 2200 31: 2200 32: 2200
    bogomips: 254398
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm
Audio:
  Device-1: NVIDIA GM206 High Definition Audio vendor: PNY
    driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 1-2:3 v: kernel pcie: chip-ID: 0db0:151f
    speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 4 bus-ID: 24:00.1 chip-ID: 10de:0fba
  Device-2: AMD Starship/Matisse HD Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: speed: 16 GT/s lanes: 16
    bus-ID: 2f:00.4 chip-ID: 1022:1487
  Device-3: Micro Star USB Audio type: USB
    driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid
  Device-4: Texas Instruments PCM2902 Audio Codec type: USB
    driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid bus-ID: 5-1:2 chip-ID: 08bb:2902
  Device-5: Logitech C922 Pro Stream Webcam type: USB
    driver: snd-usb-audio,uvcvideo bus-ID: 5-2.2:4 chip-ID: 046d:085c
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-10-amd64 status: kernel-api
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: active with: 1: pipewire-pulse
    status: active 2: wireplumber status: active 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin

[mrmazda]

Pinxi is the devel version of inxi:

Code: Select all

# pinxi -Sz --vs
pinxi 3.3.29-27 (2023-09-18)
System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-11-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Trinity Distro: Debian
    GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
# pinxi -Az
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Tiger Lake-H HD Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api
# pinxi -Az | wc -c
119
# pinxi -Axz
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Tiger Lake-H HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel
    v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1f.3
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: off
# pinxi -Axz | wc -c
208
# pinxi -Axxz
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Tiger Lake-H HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel
    v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1f.3 chip-ID: 8086:43c8
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api with: aoss
    type: oss-emulator
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: off with: 1: pipewire-pulse
    status: off 2: wireplumber status: off 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin
    4: pw-jack type: plugin
# pinxi -Axxz | wc -c
386
# pinxi -Axxxz
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Tiger Lake-H HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel
    v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1f.3 chip-ID: 8086:43c8 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api with: aoss
    type: oss-emulator
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: off with: 1: pipewire-pulse
    status: off 2: wireplumber status: off 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin
    4: pw-jack type: plugin
# pinxi -Axxxz | wc -c
401
# pinxi -Aaz
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Tiger Lake-H HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel
    v: kernel alternate: snd_sof_pci_intel_tgl bus-ID: 00:1f.3
    chip-ID: 8086:43c8 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api with: aoss
    type: oss-emulator tools: alsactl,alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: off with: 1: pipewire-pulse
    status: off 2: wireplumber status: off 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin
    4: pw-jack type: plugin tools: pactl,pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
# pinxi -Aaz | wc -c
503
#

Dunno why sunrat didn't want inxi to cough up all it could.

When I'm troubleshooting audio and pulseaudio is not installed, I commonly run the following for comparisons, hoping to ID whatever may be missing:

Code: Select all

pinxi -ASaz --vs --zl --hostname
dpkg-query -W | grep -E 'alsa|arts|audio|demul|gstr|jack|libde2|mix|pavu|puls|sof-|sound|vlc|wire|xdg' | sort
alsactl info
wpctl status
aplay -lL
pw-cli list-objects Device
pw-cli list-objects Node
pactl list cards
pactl list sinks
systemctl --global --user status pipewire.{service,socket}
systemctl --global --user status pipewire-pulse.{service,socket}
systemctl --global --user status wireplumber

I adjust appropriately if PA is included or PW is not. I still don't know much about how all the audio pieces are supposed to fit together. Only yesterday I found out KDE3 system sounds don't need arts any more. Right now on the system I write this from, everything audio I care to work does, except for Firefox and SeaMonkey won't play Youtube audio.

[sunrat]

Dunno why sunrat didn't want inxi to cough up all it could.

For most audio issues, -Axxz is sufficient. But you are correct, this is a complex setup and the extra info from -a may be useful. pinxi is not in Debian repo so I wouldn't suggest that.
I haven't jumped on the Pipewire train yet so I'll leave it to you to guide the OP as you will be more knowledgable about it.

[mrmazda]

I'm only more knowledgeable about inxi, not likely so audio on Debian, or on Linux generally. I'm mainly just frustrated by it.

If no one uses the devel version of inxi, how's the dev going to get any feedback on his changes? It's nothing but a sizeable perl script, over 1M, to cull and present usefully formatted information from the various arcane and obscure sources the system provides.

[Psycho_Punk]

Pinxi is the devel version of inxi:

Code: Select all

# pinxi -Sz --vs
pinxi 3.3.29-27 (2023-09-18)
System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-11-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Trinity Distro: Debian
    GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
# pinxi -Az
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Tiger Lake-H HD Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api
# pinxi -Az | wc -c
119
# pinxi -Axz
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Tiger Lake-H HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel
    v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1f.3
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: off
# pinxi -Axz | wc -c
208
# pinxi -Axxz
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Tiger Lake-H HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel
    v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1f.3 chip-ID: 8086:43c8
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api with: aoss
    type: oss-emulator
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: off with: 1: pipewire-pulse
    status: off 2: wireplumber status: off 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin
    4: pw-jack type: plugin
# pinxi -Axxz | wc -c
386
# pinxi -Axxxz
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Tiger Lake-H HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel
    v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1f.3 chip-ID: 8086:43c8 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api with: aoss
    type: oss-emulator
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: off with: 1: pipewire-pulse
    status: off 2: wireplumber status: off 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin
    4: pw-jack type: plugin
# pinxi -Axxxz | wc -c
401
# pinxi -Aaz
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Tiger Lake-H HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel
    v: kernel alternate: snd_sof_pci_intel_tgl bus-ID: 00:1f.3
    chip-ID: 8086:43c8 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api with: aoss
    type: oss-emulator tools: alsactl,alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.65 status: off with: 1: pipewire-pulse
    status: off 2: wireplumber status: off 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin
    4: pw-jack type: plugin tools: pactl,pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
# pinxi -Aaz | wc -c
503
#

Dunno why sunrat didn't want inxi to cough up all it could.

When I'm troubleshooting audio and pulseaudio is not installed, I commonly run the following for comparisons, hoping to ID whatever may be missing:

Code: Select all

pinxi -ASaz --vs --zl --hostname
dpkg-query -W | grep -E 'alsa|arts|audio|demul|gstr|jack|libde2|mix|pavu|puls|sof-|sound|vlc|wire|xdg' | sort
alsactl info
wpctl status
aplay -lL
pw-cli list-objects Device
pw-cli list-objects Node
pactl list cards
pactl list sinks
systemctl --global --user status pipewire.{service,socket}
systemctl --global --user status pipewire-pulse.{service,socket}
systemctl --global --user status wireplumber

I adjust appropriately if PA is included or PW is not. I still don't know much about how all the audio pieces are supposed to fit together. Only yesterday I found out KDE3 system sounds don't need arts any more. Right now on the system I write this from, everything audio I care to work does, except for Firefox and SeaMonkey won't play Youtube audio.

Thanks for chiming in! I appreciate your insight, your time, and your good-will towards helping me, a rough-edged punk, with my cruel mistress, Mone Risa (my Deb12 PC). YOU are a stellar example of this great community I fell in love with more than a decade ago. Thank you.

[Psycho_Punk]

Dunno why sunrat didn't want inxi to cough up all it could.

For most audio issues, -Axxz is sufficient. But you are correct, this is a complex setup and the extra info from -a may be useful. pinxi is not in Debian repo so I wouldn't suggest that.
I haven't jumped on the Pipewire train yet so I'll leave it to you to guide the OP as you will be more knowledgable about it.

Sunrat. You're quite adept at assessing my desires here: using a scalpel when appropriate, rather than a shovel/excavator. I see that VLC is indeed using PipeWire, and that, for me, is the first I've noticed of PipeWire being used in my cruel mistress, Mone Risa (my Deb12 PC). I'm curious as to what other apps might be calling PipeWire, but it's outside the scope of this post... unless someone can give me the guidance on that banana cluster?

THANK YOU for helping a rebel without a cause, and being so situationally-aware regarding what I hope to achieve, without sacrificing my sec model. You, sunrat, inspire me to give back to this community that has given me so much joy over the years. I'm a long-time lurker on forums.debian.net and it was a big step to create an account and make that first post. Again, thanks, and I look forward to any and all fishbones and scraps you leave me... ya big penguin, you. I mean, you shining Willard, you. ^_^

[steve_v]

I know that Debian uses both ALSA and PulseAudio for sound controllers (did I say that term right?). Which device uses which sound controller (PulseAudio/ALSA) I'm still trying to figure out.

I see that VLC is indeed using PipeWire, and that, for me, is the first I've noticed of PipeWire being used

All distributions (AFAIK) use ALSA, that's the kernel-mode drivers and low-level userspace audio system. Both pulseaudio and pipewire are userspace "sound servers", i.e. daemons that sit between ALSA and applications to provide newfangled functionality like per-application volume control and seamless output switching for your bluetooth junk gadgets.

Applications can use pulseaudio, pipewire, pulseaudio via pipewire's emulation, or ALSA, either directly or through pipewire/pulseaudio emulation, depending on what support they were compiled with and what is installed. Some really old apps use OSS, which ALSA can emulate. There's also jack, but let's not open that can of worms as well.
The whole system is kind of an overengineered hellscape, but hey, everyone needs standards, right?

The majority of applications still target either pulseaudio or ALSA (or ALSA via pulseaudio), some newer stuff (particularly GNOME & co) uses pipewire APIs directly, which is probably why you have it installed.
Installing pipewire instead of pulseaudio with the default desktop task is new for bookworm, and likely the reason your setup no longer works as intended.

Pipewire is still under heavy development and it isn't perfect, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this were one of it's many bugs (e.g. the massive and still unsolved memory leak). I'm kinda surprised it's the default in debian stable TBH... But apparently when GNOME says "Jump", Debian asks "How high?"
You may want to check out the pipewire gitlab, there are 600+ issues to look through there.

FWIW I am currently using pipewire on my bleeding-edge Gentoo desktop, but I ask no more of it than analogue stereo. I have no need or want for any kind of surround-sound or HDMI audio... Or a TV for that matter, haven't owned one of those since they used magnets and electron guns.
While I am audio-savvy enough to have built my own hifi amp and a Debian-based MPD server (plain ALSA because I want it to just work) to feed it, I only have two ears and so two speakers are plenty enough for me. So too are ordinary old analogue interconnects.
As such I could probably be of some limited use with old-school ALSA plugins and audio routing, but not so much pipewire or pulseaudio.

Aside, please, for the love of dog, post plain text in code tags instead of offsite links to blurry videos of the screen. IMO that kind of time-wasting nonsense should be a hanging offense.

[Psycho_Punk]

Thanks steve_v! Wonderful, thought-provoking pixie dust you have sprinkled on the forum today! My mind raced back to the children's movie, Fern Gully, when you mentioned bugs. Then when you got to "overengineered hellscape", I got some Matrix vibes. Then my decrepit mind all the way back to George Lucas's/Jim Henson's "Labyrinth" with David Bowie and a very young J.Connelley when you got to "How high?" And then I thought of Pink's "The Wall". So your messagebytes made it to my soundboard. Perchance. I'm gonna boot up Mario now and stomp some turts. Perchance.

Debian has been really good to me over the years. I think we all saw what Linux Torvalds had to say about NVidia (and I completely agreed with him). So yeah, I remember the whole init/systemd wars. Gentoo, you say? I see which side of the camp you fell on. Tried Gentoo twice in the past decade, just couldn't give it the complete attention it needed to install correctly. I do plan on visiting her again. I think she's a sexy thing.

And I do not love dog. I worship dog. And pasta.

You were doing impeccable, and then my Spidey senses honed in on... "time-wasting"..."guns"... "Gentoo"... "hanging offense". Tell me you're a "Southern Canadian" south of the border, without telling me you're south of the border, and a S.Canuck ^____^

I'm sure your audio setup is nicer than mine. But I must haz my TVburger.

Thanks!

[steve_v]

I remember the whole init/systemd wars. Gentoo, you say? I see which side of the camp you fell on.

Good guess, though if systemd was the only motivator I'd be running Devuan as I do on most of my other machines. Gentoo isn't "systemd-free" anyway, it's "openrc and systemd well supported, but use whatever init you like, here's a table of features and work involved". As it should be. As Debian should be.
For my primary box, and one I actually log into an interactive session on regularly enough for a rolling-release to be viable, Gentoo offers a great deal of flexibility and customisability that no binary distro can. It's also something of an old flame you might say, as it was the second distro I used for any length of time (after Slackware), and that when it was still a new kid on the block, back in ~03.

Frankly the more of this "nu-linux" corporatised windoze-refugee-pandering laptop-centric GUI-everything bloated overcomplicated and half-baked crap I encounter, the more I want to rip out... A source based distro allows me to run what I want when I want, and test newfangled nonsense (and new software releases in general) selectively rather than just eating whatever dependency crap-pie somebody else cooked up. Gentoo also makes patching said software about as easy as is possible, which I find myself doing to remove features often as not.
The "Gentoo isn't a distro, it's a set of tools to build a distro. There is no installer, because the gentoo installer is you" tagline is a nice bonus, as it's kept the board blissfully free of both vampires and idiots while somehow avoiding the elitist BS one tends to find with the likes of Arch.

Tell me you're a "Southern Canadian" south of the border

A bit over 9000Km south of that particular border, if my guestimation skills hold. 'stotally different island.
Some laws are universal, particularly those pertaining to the use of javascript and video where plain text will do.
Your apparent taste in media however is much more reasonable. Almost redeeming even.

I'm sure your audio setup is nicer than mine.

Nice is relative, it wouldn't be much fun for anyone who likes bells-and-whistles (or any controls besides "on" and "off"). I'll bet you a cookie it's louder though, loud is important to metalheads ya know.

[Psycho_Punk]

I remember the whole init/systemd wars. Gentoo, you say? I see which side of the camp you fell on.

Good guess, though if systemd was the only motivator I'd be running Devuan as I do on most of my other machines. Gentoo isn't "systemd-free" anyway, it's "openrc and systemd well supported, but use whatever init you like, here's a table of features and work involved". As it should be. As Debian should be.
For my primary box, and one I actually log into an interactive session on regularly enough for a rolling-release to be viable, Gentoo offers a great deal of flexibility and customisability that no binary distro can. It's also something of an old flame you might say, as it was the second distro I used for any length of time (after Slackware), and that when it was still a new kid on the block, back in ~03.

Frankly the more of this "nu-linux" corporatised windoze-refugee-pandering laptop-centric GUI-everything bloated overcomplicated and half-baked crap I encounter, the more I want to rip out... A source based distro allows me to run what I want when I want, and test newfangled nonsense (and new software releases in general) selectively rather than just eating whatever dependency crap-pie somebody else cooked up. Gentoo also makes patching said software about as easy as is possible, which I find myself doing to remove features often as not.
The "Gentoo isn't a distro, it's a set of tools to build a distro. There is no installer, because the gentoo installer is you" tagline is a nice bonus, as it's kept the board blissfully free of both vampires and idiots while somehow avoiding the elitist BS one tends to find with the likes of Arch.

Tell me you're a "Southern Canadian" south of the border

A bit over 9000Km south of that particular border, if my guestimation skills hold. 'stotally different island.
Some laws are universal, particularly those pertaining to the use of javascript and video where plain text will do.
Your apparent taste in media however is much more reasonable. Almost redeeming even.

I'm sure your audio setup is nicer than mine.

Nice is relative, it wouldn't be much fun for anyone who likes bells-and-whistles (or any controls besides "on" and "off"). I'll bet you a cookie it's louder though, loud is important to metalheads ya know.

I'm also embarrassed to say I had the same shortcomings with Slackware as I had with Gentoo. And I'm not blaming either of those projects. I accept full accountability for my failures to get 'em right. I also tried Slax, though I can't quite give commentary on how that went, been far too long, and it was while I was distro hopping. I'm big on GNU/Linux. My handicap is the damn nVIDIA card. PureOS? out for me. Devuan? out for me. I will be replacing it with an AMD (saving up for this, but have other priorities at the moment *sigh* life man. I'm so done with nVIDIA. Don't even get me started about my 4 Dell E6xx laptops and the whole Optimus/Bumblebee fustercl*ck. Still angry. So very incensed. Like I said, Linux Torvalds was spot-on when he publicly decreed an "fu" to nVidia. It was wunderschön (beautiful in Deutsch). I'd really love to give Gentoo another run, because what you've described, running minimalistic, was a joy with Bunsenlabs and #! Wonder if they're still active... SQUIRREL! *loses focus*
Have you ever messed with Linux From Scratch? Have you any pointers for me to fully immerse myself in it, aside from going LFS?

I don't think Arch is for me. Seems like everytime I encounter one of their fanatics, they beat their chests like gorillas about their OS. It's an OS. Calm down. There's something out there for everyone, just as there are tools for every job.

I had my thoughts about you being a 'Murican. And I don't mean that as a slight, because I served in the US military machine. I'd rather not talk about it further. Glad to be where I now am, and visit from time-to-time. But I've also got crazy stories about my stay in The States- I've stared down the barrel of a gun no less than 2x in a civilian role in my years there, and both times- nevermind. Anyway.

Lol wut? I'm beyond redemption (don't wanna get dark here!) but f yeah! I do fancy my jams. I listen to Generation X (a young Billy Idol's punk band), Dead Kennedys (they named themselves as an homage to the death of the American Dream when JFK was offed), but my catalogue spans from King Crimson to Corrosion of Conformity, Cradle of Filth to Tears for Fears. Van Halen to The Cure. Punk is where I'm home. Punk before all else for me.

I'll be checking in on this post later in the week, when I find the time. THANK YOU ALL! I posted this same original post over at LinuxQuestions, and it was a "troupezooi". I'll let those that wanna translate that, translate that. A bit of a circus.

Psycho, out.