Completed Migration to Debian 12

[rhinjard]

Follow through of the below topic
Few Questions to the Debian Community before Migration

So, today I have finished the migration to Debian 12 KDE from Windows 10. Below is my complete experience and difficulties faced.

Since, Microsoft announced the EOL for Windows 10, I started looking for a replacement OS. I am not a Microsoft-hater but I do hate the direction they are going with Windows. I was a happy user of Windows, extensively used it since the days of Windows 2000. I really liked the UI, the workflow and the easy availability of industry standard applications to go with. But things started going south since the launch of Windows 8. I just hate the touch nonsense they introduced in Desktop UI. And with the launch of Windows 11, they actually managed to destroy the familiar, efficient UI and the workflow that always hooked me into Windows.

I have used Linux in the past, just not as my primary OS. I've used Arch, Debian, Slackware, OpenSUSE, CentOS, Ubuntu and couple of other flavors I don't even remember currently. The main reasons that prevented me to use Linux in the past are:
1) Extremely bad font rendering. I stare at my laptop screen for 12-14 hour per day on average. So, good font rendering is a must for me.
2) Fragmentation across the distributions, the desktops and the GUI toolkits. Basically, there is no cohesion among the apps built with different GUI toolkits.
3) Lack of industry standard applications.

But since I have decided to migrate into Linux, I had to find a way to bypass all the above-mentioned shortcomings. So, I sat down and started listing the applications that are most important to me and can be replaced by an exact functioning alternative; and those which can be replaced by more inferior versions of the original. Here is the final list I came up with:
1) Browser/Email: Edge, Firefox, Thunderbird, all are available in Linux.
2) Code Editor: VSCode can be used in Linux as well.
3) Hypervisor: KVM/QEMU is an excellent alternative to Hyper-V and can be more performative if tuned properly.
4) Text Editor: Kate can replace Notepad++.
5) Image Editor/Viewer: GIMP doesn't come close to Photoshop. Period. But for occasional image editing GIMP is more than fine. As for the viewer, my favorite XnViewMP is available for Linux as well.
6) Music/Video: Nothing beats Musicbee but Strawberry can be a decent alternative in Linux. For video playing SMPlayer is available in Linux, so all good in that department.
7) Note Taking: My favorite Joplin comes with Appimage version that can be integrated with the system by extracting.
8/) Others: There is no replacement for Internet Download Manager, and alternates are vastly inferiors compared to it. But I guess I can make one or two compromise. For torrenting, QBitTorrent is a good alternative to Tixati. Filiezilla is availale in Linux as it is, so no need to look anywhere else.
9) Office: Here it becomes difficult. There is no replacement at all for MS Office and it is a must because it's what majority if the people and company use. Tested it with Wine but it became unstable. Only option I found is to setup a stripped down Windows vm and use MS Office in it when required. Same goes for Foxit Phantom PDF Editor as well. Need to use it in VM as there is no proper replacement in Linux for it.

After sorting out the applications, it was time to decide a distribution. I chose Debian because a) excellent stability, b) huge userbase and one of the biggest repositories of softwares and c) no snap, flatpak(Ubuntu, Fedora etc.) or other flashy but useless techno nonsense(Void, Gentoo, Solus etc.).

And my desktop of choice is KDE Plasma. I hate Gnome, I hate how it looks, I hate how it works, I hate that the abomination still even exists. Cinnamon is a half-breed of Gnome. Mate lack modernism. XFCE just feels incomplete. Whereas, Plasma doesn't change for the sake of so-called modernism, integrate well with the system, no touch nonsense. It's lean, fast, adhered to the basic desktop workflow and design. It's just perfect.

So, that's all about my experience of the migration. Thanks for reading this. I am hoping to spend a long time with you guys. I am going to finish this with a lovely screenshot of my desktop.



I will also write a post about how I overcame the issues that prevented me to use Linux as my primary OS, but not today. I am too tired to write up another post.

[nooblinx]

for downloading use uget

[cds60601]

4. Notepad++ - there is NotepadQQ if you likes Notpad++
9. LibreOffice - it comes close and if you install the MS fonts, it comes even closer.
9. Office365 online - IF you simply cant' do without it and dont want to mess with LibreOffice.

[None1975]

For office, just use LibreOffice, or ONLYOFFICE Desktop Editors (available as flatpak).

[rhinjard]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I've tried Uget, Kget & Persepolis. They are good enough for simple downloading tasks but the Internet Download Manager integrates so well with the browsers. It is also an excellent media grabber, catches almost every video I play in the browsers. It really lacks a proper Linux alternative.

I am using LibreOffice for personal editing. But it becomes real complex once I receive documents and spreadsheets from my clients. Every one of them use MS Office to create and edit theirs. I've tried LibreOffice, WPS Office and OnlyOffice. None of them was able to preserve the formatting. Rendering spreadsheets was fine in LibreOffice or in OnlyOffice as long as it doesn't include complex macros. But word documents were complete mess. I really have no other option other than firing up a minimal Windows 10 VM and get my works done in there. I am aware of the online version of MS Office but it's laggy and lacks some important functionalities. I tried it once and it couldn't handle the macro that came with one of the spreadsheets.

Other than these two issues, I am very happy migrating to Linux to get my work done.

[Uptorn]

I just hate the touch nonsense they introduced in Desktop UI. And with the launch of Windows 11, they actually managed to destroy the familiar, efficient UI and the workflow that always hooked me into Windows.

Theoretical question: If it were possible to somehow install KDE Plasma as a UI for Windows, does that mean you would then stick with Windows?

So, I sat down and started listing the applications that are most important to me and can be replaced by an exact functioning alternative

In my own migration from Windows, I found myself having done a similar thing. I assumed that my new home wouldn't feel complete unless there was a similar replacement to everything. But as the years have drawn on, I slowly discovered that much of what I thought I'd needed wasn't really necessary at all (or could be thought about differently). Some graphical IDE isn't necessary when vim tiny and a compiler suffice. Editing videos, for example, I quite like ffmpeg since most of my "video editing" has been just cropping down clips to share with friends.

If I could send a message back in time to my former self, I wish I could have told myself "don't cling so tightly to all these things you think you'll need forever".

[jo01]

I am using LibreOffice for personal editing. But it becomes real complex once I receive documents and spreadsheets from my clients. Every one of them use MS Office to create and edit theirs. I've tried LibreOffice, WPS Office and OnlyOffice. None of them was able to preserve the formatting. Rendering spreadsheets was fine in LibreOffice or in OnlyOffice as long as it doesn't include complex macros.

You can have a look at Softmaker Office. Compatibility with MS Office is better than LibreOffice. It's not free and Open Source but you can test it for free IIRC.

A very good PDF editor is Master PDF Editor ($).

[alienspy]

You can have a look at Softmaker Office. Compatibility with MS Office is better than LibreOffice. It's not free and Open Source but you can test it for free IIRC.

There is a free version - https://www.freeoffice.com/en/features/ ... -textmaker

And for Audio i think that Quod Libet is very very cool. With Equalizer plugin and MPRIS D-bus plugin for DE integration it is awesome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quod_Libet_(software)

https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/quodlibet

[bink]

Congrats on your migration! I'm doing the same. In my case, I have another system with Windows and use FreeRDP to connect to it for Microsoft Office and whatever else I might require. The only issue is this requires me to be online, but it hasn't been an issue so far, and this solution requires less resources compared to a local VM.

That said, I am starting to question my choice of Debian as it relates to KDE; there are many bug fixes in updated versions of KDE and related, but it appears these might not get to Debian for quite some time.

[rhinjard]

Sorry guys, I was unable to log into the forum for so many days. I took a offer for a new job and had to move to a different city.

Theoretical question: If it were possible to somehow install KDE Plasma as a UI for Windows, does that mean you would then stick with Windows?

Actually no. Indeed, I always prefer a UI that is tried and tested and most importantly adheres to the idea that a desktop/laptop is OPERATED THROUGH KEYBOARD & MOUSE. I used Windows since the days of Windows 98 SE. The last good version of Windows for me was the Windows 7. After that, everything went downhill with Microsoft's supposedly brilliant idea of making Windows a desktop/mobile hybrid. I still used Windows afterward but it felt kind of forced. I guess, Windows 11 was the last straw for me and the trash UI was just one of the reasons for me to quit. There were many, like 1)making the Root scheduler default instead of the Classic/Core scheduler in all Windows clients, 2)becoming a hybrid of native Win32 apps and UWP apps, 3)Windows Store being forced upon the users, 4)laggy interface, 5)botched updates, 6)horrible grayscale font rendering in UWP apps and many others.

Making KDE Plasma or any other Linux DE compatible with Windows will not save the sinking ship. It's just gone for me and that's coming from a Windows fanboy of almost 18 years.

In my own migration from Windows, I found myself having done a similar thing. I assumed that my new home wouldn't feel complete unless there was a similar replacement to everything. But as the years have drawn on, I slowly discovered that much of what I thought I'd needed wasn't really necessary at all (or could be thought about differently). Some graphical IDE isn't necessary when vim tiny and a compiler suffice. Editing videos, for example, I quite like ffmpeg since most of my "video editing" has been just cropping down clips to share with friends.

If I could send a message back in time to my former self, I wish I could have told myself "don't cling so tightly to all these things you think you'll need forever".

You were right. But coming from Windows, I have gotten used to having GUI for everything. I just feel more comfortable if I can see some control elements, to operate a program that can be clicked through the mouse, by my own eyes.

[rhinjard]

You can have a look at Softmaker Office. Compatibility with MS Office is better than LibreOffice. It's not free and Open Source but you can test it for free IIRC.

There is a free version - https://www.freeoffice.com/en/features/ ... -textmaker

And for Audio i think that Quod Libet is very very cool. With Equalizer plugin and MPRIS D-bus plugin for DE integration it is awesome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quod_Libet_(software)

https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/quodlibet

Thanks, Softmaker office seems a good alternative. I am going to try it out.

I tried Quod Libet before settling into Strawberry. Quod Libet could not display the lyrics stored in the ID3 tags.

[rhinjard]

Congrats on your migration! I'm doing the same. In my case, I have another system with Windows and use FreeRDP to connect to it for Microsoft Office and whatever else I might require. The only issue is this requires me to be online, but it hasn't been an issue so far, and this solution requires less resources compared to a local VM.

That said, I am starting to question my choice of Debian as it relates to KDE; there are many bug fixes in updated versions of KDE and related, but it appears these might not get to Debian for quite some time.

How's it going?

About your doubt about KDE and Debian, all I can say is that not always all the fixes done by upstreams affect most of the users in their daily usage.

But I've been moved from KDE Plasma to Cinnamon DE recently. I was experimenting with the font rendering and found Cinnamon and Mate have more clear font rendering than other DEs. I was able to achieve the most excellent font renderings (yes, even better than the famous infinality) with the Cinnamon DE in Debian. I am going to make a new post about it once I finish the writeup.

[CwF]

Quod Libet could not display the lyrics stored in the ID3 tags.

Wow, I forgot that was even a thing!

I remember a kerfuffle concerning copyright when a server somewhere (Sweden?) was shut down and I stopped adding lyrics. I didn't think that was a standard thing that ever made it into the evolving tag standards.
From that time in the late 90's, NT4 and mp3manager, I haven't thought about it. I did the few hundred CD's back then in what was a sweet spot of function and remember being disappointed the more time went on. CD readers got more 'correction' and less accuracy compared to early scsi Plextors, new standards, and hype, changed expectations, etc.
A few months back I was hacking a last known good deadbeef into my i386 wine bookworm image where I found foobar under wine to be terrible, neither display lyrics, or I missed it since I forgot. Looking at cli utilities to use in my tcl/tk gui I don't remember coming across lyrics fields or options of any kind. I will put this back on the never-have-time-to-do list. $ apropos lyrics returns nothing.

[rhinjard]

Quod Libet could not display the lyrics stored in the ID3 tags.

Wow, I forgot that was even a thing!

I remember a kerfuffle concerning copyright when a server somewhere (Sweden?) was shut down and I stopped adding lyrics. I didn't think that was a standard thing that ever made it into the evolving tag standards.
From that time in the late 90's, NT4 and mp3manager, I haven't thought about it. I did the few hundred CD's back then in what was a sweet spot of function and remember being disappointed the more time went on. CD readers got more 'correction' and less accuracy compared to early scsi Plextors, new standards, and hype, changed expectations, etc.
A few months back I was hacking a last known good deadbeef into my i386 wine bookworm image where I found foobar under wine to be terrible, neither display lyrics, or I missed it since I forgot. Looking at cli utilities to use in my tcl/tk gui I don't remember coming across lyrics fields or options of any kind. I will put this back on the never-have-time-to-do list. $ apropos lyrics returns nothing.

I thought of trying foobar with wine but then again it goes against my idea of running a pure 64bit system. Also, being a non-native English speaker, I need to have lyrics for all the songs and storing both lyrics and album art inside the ID3 tags are so much convenient for me.

[bink]

I took a offer for a new job and had to move to a different city.

Congrats!

Congrats on your migration! I'm doing the same. In my case, I have another system with Windows and use FreeRDP to connect to it for Microsoft Office and whatever else I might require. The only issue is this requires me to be online, but it hasn't been an issue so far, and this solution requires less resources compared to a local VM.

That said, I am starting to question my choice of Debian as it relates to KDE; there are many bug fixes in updated versions of KDE and related, but it appears these might not get to Debian for quite some time.

How's it going?

Good! Linux and the DEs have come a very long way and I feel they've surpassed Windows now! I'd like to see greater efforts from the hardware vendors though in making Linux a first class citizen.

About your doubt about KDE and Debian, all I can say is that not always all the fixes done by upstreams affect most of the users in their daily usage.

Fair, but, when you are affected, your recourse options are a lot more challenging than a simple apt upgrade.

I've been moved from KDE Plasma to Cinnamon DE recently. I was experimenting with the font rendering and found Cinnamon and Mate have more clear font rendering than other DEs. I was able to achieve the most excellent font renderings (yes, even better than the famous infinality) with the Cinnamon DE in Debian. I am going to make a new post about it once I finish the writeup.

I look forward to your post! I find KDE, with it's fractional scaling and anti-aliasing, very good here and have not had any issues with font rendering!

[Uptorn]

2)becoming a hybrid of native Win32 apps and UWP apps,

This is just an intermediary phase in the depreciation of win32. Once the tooling is fully in place to drop win32 and once the public has been sufficiently softened to the concept, there is no doubt in my mind that they're going to drop it like a bad date and enforce the new, even more user-hating environment.

boars.gif (511.88 KiB) Viewed 19019 times

[donald]

@Best_Threads

[dilberts_left_nut]

gmusicbrowser

That is all

[bin]

Softmaker FreeOffice doesn't do tables and other important stuff which it sounds like OP needs. The paid version is the better way to go and so far I have not found an MS Office doc that it won't load and work with.
Likewise Softmaker FlexiPDF is excellent for PDF editing. Again it's a paid for application. It does run tolerably well under WINE, but it sounds like a Windows VM may be the better option for the heavy lifting.

[rhinjard]

Congrats!

Thanks. It's a good opportunity, plus I was provided with JetBrains licenses which I can use on my home laptop as well.

Good! Linux and the DEs have come a very long way and I feel they've surpassed Windows now! I'd like to see greater efforts from the hardware vendors though in making Linux a first class citizen.

Hardware supports are lot better nowadays. I've yet to find such issues, then I may be wrong as I do not use dedicated graphics which seems more problematic than others.

Fair, but, when you are affected, your recourse options are a lot more challenging than a simple apt upgrade.

I couldn't agree more. I guess rolling release is the way to go in that case.

I look forward to your post! I find KDE, with it's fractional scaling and anti-aliasing, very good here and have not had any issues with font rendering!

KDE Plasma is just an exceptionally good desktop. It does everything well. The issue I found was that, though it renders the font very well, few GTK based apps most of the time do not follow the DE font rendering settings. Try with Firefox or Edge, and Meld, you will see the subtle difference in the rendering. Also, some of the AppImage based apps which I use, do not follow the KDE Breeze theme. But they do follow the qt5ct settings from any GTK based DE. Starnge, I know.