Registration

[enesha]

Hiya all -
So I am new to the forum - just registered earlier today to try and get some help as I migrate from the *Buntu to deb. I just have a few thoughts here about the process.
The registration process is crazy unfriendly. I was trying to register from a boot of a linux live usb. Stock firefox. I simply could not do it. I think there is something sitting on my network blocking ads, and probably some google bs. Apparently your cookie prompt and your lovely airplane question, i suspect, rely on a google service of some sort. googleapis maybe idk. but it's a huge PITA. After literally HOURS I was only able to register properly by using the live and using my phones hotspot to get around that. I guess it's my problem for my network blocking some google services (despite how many people are trying to de-googlefy their lives) so bad on me, but I just thought that I would express my frustration at it, even if it's not technically your fault.

So that brings me down to the anti-spam and captcha(?). I get that there is a legitimate need to reduce spam and mechanically generated accounts. Unfortunately that's just a problem (been like that for decades unfortunately) and it needs defended against. So you have, I guess, three anti-spam quetions, even though only the first one actually identifies itself as one, with a number to boot, but it's easy enough to guess what's happening. I would just have a few suggestions. #1 whatever. #2 are you a cat? and you choose cat or human. Not really an answer to the question tho, are you a cat would be answered yes or no. #3 Operating System. I guess you can Intuit that you wanted the answer of Debian. A little unclear, could be asking what OS are you on as I was using a win machine at some point since i was having troubles.

The airplane thing was a bit rough too. I had troubles. Obviously I got through it but maybe some changes, as it's not obvious. Technically it's not REQUIRED to have a parachute to fly a plane, if you want to be super specific about things you don't REQUIRE a runway either as you can launch an airplane that is tethered to another plane. Not just a glider but here is a quote from google "The need for a runway can be eliminated for a fixed-wing aircraft by launching and recovering using off-board a launch and recovery system (LARS) as does the InSitu ScanEagle and AAI Pioneer drones, such as using rocket-assisted takeoff or pneumatic rails and landing by flying into a catch net." So if you are going to be super specific about parachutes just saying that is a super specific exemption as well.
And just one final suggestion - i'm not sure what the situation with the e-mail is, but maybe someone needs to look in to it. I Finally got registered, then no e-mail. Waited like 20 mins, went to the site, triggered resend of e-mail. Wait and no luck. Finally after requesting a second time and waiting another 20 minutes, i received the confirmation. Only 1. Don't know if it's on my side or what but we're not using uucp any more these days, or batch synching via the BBS at night (yeah I remember those days lol) but i'm sure it should go a bit faster

So please don't take this as aggressive bitching or whining. I'm really just venting my frustration. I don't want to burn any bridges in here, since im so new to here, but venting is venting
Have a great day everyone and feel free to ignore me, call me a whiner or whatever lol Whatever makes you happiest

[Hetzer]

Apparently your cookie prompt and your lovely airplane question, i suspect, rely on a google service of some sort. googleapis maybe idk

Yes it does, sadly. And well, because I'm blocking anything from goolag - also couldn't register till I've realized that it depends on googleapis...

The airplane thing was a bit rough too

I'll agree, it spawns questions - What ye see as obvious may not be so for the author && vice-versa

And just one final suggestion - i'm not sure what the situation with the e-mail is, but maybe someone needs to look in to it. I Finally got registered, then no e-mail. Waited like 20 mins, went to the site, triggered resend of e-mail. Wait and no luck. Finally after requesting a second time and waiting another 20 minutes, i received the confirmation. Only 1. Don't know if it's on my side or what but we're not using uucp any more these days, or batch synching via the BBS at night (yeah I remember those days lol) but i'm sure it should go a bit faster

I'm doubt it's a problem with forum mailserver - I get messages from it pretty quickly and mails from it don't get lost

[donald]

Now we have to change the questions.

The process isn't designed to frustrate humans, but more or less the bots which now around the world we realize was just a skirmish of the battle again spammers. The real war is the new fight against bots powered by AI. It is unfortunate that a few people get caught up in the logic, even worse for non English speakers who may not understand the inflection or subtle hints in the questions, but making it easy for everyone only gives a good bot/AI a golden ticket and moments later the forums are filled with spam, link to addresses, and rowdy behaviour.

We do rely on a few Google APIs, going through the history very quickly: We sought to use none -> No outside calls were made to any 3rd party service -> We discovered that the default forum fonts use 2 separate 3rd party font engines -> We tried to then host our own fonts -> There was much failure and a large forum board crash -> We went back to using the default fonts and clarified that in a thread somewhere some long time ago -> Since no one read the thread we up a cookie notice that tells about users about the outside calls used for fonts or graphics for which we have no control over but wanted to inform the users of what was happening in the background -> * <- we are here.

A few new users have mentioned an issue with the mailing system. We receive antivirus/spam check emails directly from the server rather quickly however those emails are only for spam/content checks toward us and nothing that indicates in those reports or logs of issues for sending emails out. This issue could be something from Gmail who a lot of people use for email despite having their own domains, same for Hotmail, Yahoo, and so on who then process our mail through filters the same we we do. We are not listed on any spam lists so this is a bit curious. We are monitoring the situation.

I'll try next week to register from a different IP/Email and see if I encounter any delays to research the concern.

[enesha]

Hey thanks for the reply

Oops sorry for spilling the beans with the questions. I totally didn't even think about it. I hope it didn't actually cause any harm.
Interesting story about the google integration. Getting away from them is good, but so very very hard. I use Android...OMFG trying to cut them out is hard...You have to provide alternate apis, and even then you really only clean the pipe but still sip from the well. Not sure iOS is any better though. Some things better, some just as bad. *shrugs*
Related to your point about e-mail, yeah they are hard to avoid. I do use gmail, but am actively working to activate a few domains that I have had for a number of years and use them for e-mail using a vps. Just working out what specific setup I want. I havent run my own server for a number of years and I need to refresh my understanding of postfix/sendmail, and will i use squirrelmail or redmail or plain imap etc etc etc
Fonts - blargh lol. I actively block fonts.googleapis (among others fing hate those guys) Causes lag sometimes but I don't really see the point. I only have one site where my blocking of fonts seems to make a difference. And even then it doesn't affect me, just some sector headings etc that show pretty shapes instead of text lol.
Anyway thanks again for the polite Hello and I am super sorry if my venting actually caused you frustration lol.

[enesha]

Hey just one follow up:) Since I've been having my installation problems, and have been using live usb, my cookies are getting reset every time. Thus I get a new cookie popup every time. To be expected, just how the system works. However you mentioned the cookies in regard to fonts. Now normally I just deny everything, but this time I went deeper. Your technically necessary cookies only mention login and session management. Interesting that right now the popup is on my screen, and I have neither accepted or denied but I was able to log in and post this. That aside, you only have three other types of cookies mentioned: YouTube, Vimeo and Google Translate. None of which mention fonts. Just bringing up as maybe something changed? Or maybe you guys thought you put up something and never got 'round to it.

Anyway just mentioning

[bbbhltz]

Oops sorry for spilling the beans with the questions.

I also had to try a couple times, but once it worked I hadn't email issues. It wouldn't work on my phone in the 2 browsers I have, though.

I knew someone would spill the beans at some point, I even thought about discretely asking about it too and looked up the phpBB extension (https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/exte ... s_captcha/) because I had never seen a captcha like that before.

[donald]

Hey just one follow up:) Since I've been having my installation problems, and have been using live usb, my cookies are getting reset every time. Thus I get a new cookie popup every time. To be expected, just how the system works. However you mentioned the cookies in regard to fonts. Now normally I just deny everything, but this time I went deeper. Your technically necessary cookies only mention login and session management. Interesting that right now the popup is on my screen, and I have neither accepted or denied but I was able to log in and post this. That aside, you only have three other types of cookies mentioned: YouTube, Vimeo and Google Translate. None of which mention fonts. Just bringing up as maybe something changed? Or maybe you guys thought you put up something and never got 'round to it.

Anyway just mentioning

I get that issue too with the cookie reminder popping up all the time. I think it is due to an ad blocker or other extension i am using. Blocking the cookies just means it wont save to your system it does not deny your ability to log in.

The pop up is the result of the screen prior where you are advised that there will be outside and 3rd party use, it is not intended to specify or highlight particular services. See this older discussion for more information: viewtopic.php?t=153434

[enesha]

[/quote]

I get that issue too with the cookie reminder popping up all the time. I think it is due to an ad blocker or other extension i am using. Blocking the cookies just means it wont save to your system it does not deny your ability to log in.

The pop up is the result of the screen prior where you are advised that there will be outside and 3rd party use, it is not intended to specify or highlight particular services. See this older discussion for more information: viewtopic.php?t=153434
[/quote]

Well mine is definitely because i'm running live usb and without persistence, so every reboot i start fresh. A hell of my own making lol

So I'm confused about the cookies tho. I am not sure what prior screen you are speaking of. The popup doesn't seem to come on right away, just decides to pup back up on it;s own, I haven't discerned a pattern yet, but I definitely don't recall a screen about third party use. The pop up asking for permission for cookies. Accept Deny or Cookie settings. Including "Technically Necessary", Put a pin in that.
It DOES highlight specific services and uses tho. YouTube, Vimeo (videos) and Google Translator (translation) - to be specific, as even showed in the pics in the second post of that thread you quoted

I see the explanation about the fonts, tho this time I see it's about the themes, cool. However It was suggested in an earlier post in this thread, that this use for fonts was somehow communicated. Other than the post you told me, and I suppose proactively searching the forum in general, there's no mention about fonts. Accept for purposes of Vimeo and YouTube videos and GoogleTranslator. I looked closely, nothing about fonts, tho maybe on the main cookie screen "Media". Maybe this is a stock sort of message that comes from somewhere, dunno. I was just pointing out the information I was given re: there's information about fonts and that's why we have cookies, is, strictly speaking, incorrect. Unless I missed something totally obvious, which I do tend to do.

So pull that pin. "Technically Necessary" for "Login, Session Cookies" Always necessary. But they are neither. According to you it will not effect service or deny login. That is also my experience. So then if they are in fact not necessary, why would you force them onto my machine? Maybe not having my username saved, or whatever else you're doing is precisely what I wanted? When I'm in a real setup I do run noscript, block cookies - even first party session cookies etc, these just come to my attention now, when I am unprotected. Good to know that when I get to it, blocking them will have no real consequence. It does make me twitchy. Kinda proof that websites are apparently doing what i've long suspected and being less than candid with things like that. Just seems kinda creepy. Kinda like some of the big guys that opt you into crap, then say well you just have to know to disable everything. All that Firefox telemetry is there to Help. All that google analytics is a benefit to YOU not that advertisers, etc. If you didn't like the stuff we never told you about, you had the technical ability to disable it. Opt-In is for YOUR convenience.

*shrugs*
The state of the industry I suppose, and simply is what it is. I just remember buying software and actually owning it. Buying a movie and not having a digital rights effectively long term rental (re sony and their recent pull of digital content). Only having software on your computer that you put there because YOU wanted it. Being able to be on the web without sites effectively running external, unidentified and often obscured programs via js

All of that is neither here nor there. I was simply pointing out that the info told to me about there being information being displayed the explicitly mention fonts was incorrect. Not really needing to get into the politics of things. Just thought maybe there was a big screen about fonts and external content I missed, or if he was misinformed or something had changed.

Have a great night (sorry - sometimes I do get feisty lol. All in good spirit )

[donald]

I get that issue too with the cookie reminder popping up all the time. I think it is due to an ad blocker or other extension i am using. Blocking the cookies just means it wont save to your system it does not deny your ability to log in.

The pop up is the result of the screen prior where you are advised that there will be outside and 3rd party use, it is not intended to specify or highlight particular services. See this older discussion for more information: viewtopic.php?t=153434

Well mine is definitely because i'm running live usb and without persistence, so every reboot i start fresh. A hell of my own making lol

So I'm confused about the cookies tho. I am not sure what prior screen you are speaking of. The popup doesn't seem to come on right away, just decides to pup back up on it;s own, I haven't discerned a pattern yet, but I definitely don't recall a screen about third party use. The pop up asking for permission for cookies. Accept Deny or Cookie settings. Including "Technically Necessary", Put a pin in that.
It DOES highlight specific services and uses tho. YouTube, Vimeo (videos) and Google Translator (translation) - to be specific, as even showed in the pics in the second post of that thread you quoted

The cookie screen is to let users know that some 3rd party callouts will be present with use of the forums. Again it is not specific to the services listed, it is advisory.

I see the explanation about the fonts, tho this time I see it's about the themes, cool.

They are one in the same as the themes use the fonts.

However It was suggested in an earlier post in this thread, that this use for fonts was somehow communicated. Other than the post you told me, and I suppose proactively searching the forum in general, there's no mention about fonts. Accept for purposes of Vimeo and YouTube videos and GoogleTranslator. I looked closely, nothing about fonts, tho maybe on the main cookie screen "Media". Maybe this is a stock sort of message that comes from somewhere, dunno. I was just pointing out the information I was given re: there's information about fonts and that's why we have cookies, is, strictly speaking, incorrect. Unless I missed something totally obvious, which I do tend to do.

@enesha

You need to search this particular sub-forum, it has all the answers that you need. While a fresh re-telling of the story is grand and all, some prior research will help you really understand the issues. Start with this one: viewtopic.php?p=762640&hilit=fonts#p762640

So pull that pin. "Technically Necessary" for "Login, Session Cookies" Always necessary. But they are neither. According to you it will not effect service or deny login. That is also my experience. So then if they are in fact not necessary, why would you force them onto my machine?

Again it is not specific to the services listed, it is advisory. You can deny the cookie or set your browser (as it should be set) to deny all cookies.

Maybe not having my username saved, or whatever else you're doing is precisely what I wanted? When I'm in a real setup I do run noscript, block cookies - even first party session cookies etc, these just come to my attention now, when I am unprotected. Good to know that when I get to it, blocking them will have no real consequence.

Blocking cookies on some websites will deny you some use of that website, we do not do that here. The 'new' cookie system sits atop the old normal everywhere cookie system. Username, session, id I think? Nothing stored. But this is a non topic so I don't really have much to offer more than suggesting you research how cookies work.

It does make me twitchy. Kinda proof that websites are apparently doing what i've long suspected and being less than candid with things like that. Just seems kinda creepy. Kinda like some of the big guys that opt you into crap, then say well you just have to know to disable everything. All that Firefox telemetry is there to Help. All that google analytics is a benefit to YOU not that advertisers, etc. If you didn't like the stuff we never told you about, you had the technical ability to disable it. Opt-In is for YOUR convenience.

We get no benefit whatsoever from any outside services or providers, to be honest while we are approached all the time about our metrics, we do not track anything here other than going through a log for banned/spammer IPs. Perhaps you mean this for another board or other system? We are pretty plain here. These are technical forums with an off-topic section. No need for ads, offsite links, giant images, linked files, etc. We function as a library that you don't need to be quiet in and we do quite well at it.

*shrugs*
The state of the industry I suppose, and simply is what it is. I just remember buying software and actually owning it. Buying a movie and not having a digital rights effectively long term rental (re sony and their recent pull of digital content). Only having software on your computer that you put there because YOU wanted it. Being able to be on the web without sites effectively running external, unidentified and often obscured programs via js

All of that is neither here nor there. I was simply pointing out that the info told to me about there being information being displayed the explicitly mention fonts was incorrect. Not really needing to get into the politics of things. Just thought maybe there was a big screen about fonts and external content I missed, or if he was misinformed or something had changed.

Have a great night (sorry - sometimes I do get feisty lol. All in good spirit )

No worries. Tracking is a large concern for all of us not just here on these forums, but everywhere. Unfortunately with the manner that the Internet has been policed and commercialized it has become harder and harder to maintain some level of anonymity even when one chooses that path for non nefarious purposes.

At best all you and all of us can do is to not accept cookies or have your browser wipe them with the browser close. It also helps not to leave browsers open overnight.

If you are really interested in the topic or want a longer discussion start a thread, I'm confident people will contribute on the topic. I certainly will. But this topic for this system has been beaten to death, I suggest you search this sub-forum and see the prior discussions, actions, and fellow members input. I'm out.