[Solved] Install VirtualBox or Virt-Manager

[limotux]

Hi,
Sorry if this is a repeated question.
I have already read viewtopic.php?t=80468 and viewtopic.php?t=133006

But my question is a bit more simple.
On some others distros I was on, I used to download and install the relevant packages and extension pack from https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

I tried:

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root@debian:/home/limo# sudo apt install virtualbox virtualbox-ext-packReading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
Package virtualbox is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source

Package virtualbox-ext-pack is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source

E: Package 'virtualbox' has no installation candidate
E: Package 'virtualbox-ext-pack' has no installation candidate
root@debian:/home/limo# 

So, it is in not in the default repos.
(I won't really like to play with repos or change them, my rule of thumb always is better stick to defaults.)

So, would it be OK to download from the VirtualBox website and install from the downloaded .deb files?
Would this add the virtualbox repos?
Would I be getting updates automatically?

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I feel in my case or my question is just a bit different from the case in other 2 threads.

UPDATE:
I tried AI Bard/Gemini and it suggested:

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sudo wget https://www.virtualbox.org/download/linux_repositories/debian/virtualbox.list -O /etc/apt/sources.list.d/virtualbox.list
sudo apt update
sudo apt install virtualbox virtualbox-ext-pack

I though prefer asking the experts.here. Better than AI.

[steve_v]

Virtualbox is (last time I looked anyway) available from the debian-fasttrack repository.

As to your other questions:
Probably.
No, unless you add their repository.
No, as above.

[friendlysalmon88]

I think that it would be beneficial if the OP consider using the fastback,debain.net package archive, as it tends to have the newest releases of YirtualBox that have been thoroughly back the Debian community.
I've had great sucess using the verion of Virtual box from the aforementioned repository.

[limotux]

Virtualbox is (last time I looked anyway) available from the debian-fasttrack repository.

As to your other questions:
Probably.
No, unless you add their repository.
No, as above.

Thanks @steve_v
I will read a bit more to understand what is the fasttrack repository. I hope it is a stable as default Debian repos, I don't really care about frequent updates (I came to Debian from EndeavourOS which is a rolling release and I really enjoyed it for about a year)

I am thinking doing:

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sudo wget https://www.virtualbox.org/download/linux_repositories/debian/virtualbox.list -O /etc/apt/sources.list.d/virtualbox.list
sudo apt update
sudo apt install virtualbox virtualbox-ext-pack

and adding the virtualbox.org repos to my sources list if it will be more stable or better than adding the fasttrack repo.

Any more ideas or comments?
I believe in brainstorming and discussion to learn more.

[limotux]

I think that it would be beneficial if the OP consider using the fastback,debain.net package archive, as it tends to have the newest releases of YirtualBox that have been thoroughly back the Debian community.
I've had great sucess using the verion of Virtual box from the aforementioned repository.

Thanks @friendlysalmon88 for your input.
Allow me to ask again as per my previous reply, as you are using fasttrack repo, what are the differences between this fasttrack repo and adding the virtualbox.org repo?

Does the fast track repo get more frequent updates to all installed packages?
I will appreciate helping me more with your experience.

I will do my homework and study more about fasttrack repo.

What do you think about what I suggested above, to add the virtualbox.org repo? Would it be better, more stable?
I am just brain storming and listenning to different points of view and learning from others experiences.

[arzgi]

virtualbox was in the repo for quite a short time. It was removed because they did not made secure patches to flaws Linux devs told.

[steve_v]

It was removed because they did not made secure patches to flaws Linux devs told.

It was removed because Oracle wouldn't provide backported security patches for the version Debian was shipping, which means the only way to have those fixes is to run the latest upstream release. That obviously won't work with the Debian stable release model.
Debian-fasttrack exists specifically to serve packages like this (i.e. can't be run through the usual unstable -> testing -> stable workflow) to Debian stable users.

As for which repo to use, virtualbox upstream is probably faster than fasttrack when it comes to new releases, but it doesn't get any testing by Debian maintainers at all. Pick your poison.

[limotux]

It was removed because they did not made secure patches to flaws Linux devs told.

It was removed because Oracle wouldn't provide backported security patches f........
As for which repo to use, virtualbox upstream is probably faster than fasttrack when it comes to new releases, but it doesn't get any testing by Debian maintainers at all. Pick your poison.

I see, I have to pick a poison.
I read about fast track, if I added it -as I understand - I will be updating all installed software, which is not the Debian philosophy or tue Debian quality and stability, which is why I am here (from a rolling release as I previously mentioned)

So, perhaps adding the virtualbox.org repos is the safest that I can have only virtualbox and only its updates not everything, while keeping the rest of the system the amazing Debian and its stability.

What do you think guys?
Any reliable alternative that is as good as virtualbox perhaps.
Any ideas or suggestions? Any suggested alternatives that are in the Debian repos that might fit the bill?
May I suggest that Debian select a stable version and add it to the Debian repos? I am not interfering with their business, I appreciate what they are doing but hoping to find the best solution!
Well, for me, since 2000 on Linux, Linux is to try, test, experiment with the same distro or with other distros.

I will think out loud with you, if you allow me.
As I know, my default installation did not come with Python, so I was thinking of using virtualbox and install Debian on it and add Python and play with it. This way, I will be keeping my Debian installation as default as it is.

I started to think of installing something like TimeShift, but it is not that practical in this case.

[CwF]

Any reliable alternative that is as good as virtualbox perhaps.

It may be more relevant what you want to do with your vm's and on what hardware you have to work with. Ultimately, qemu/kvm/libvirt is a superior host for any purpose if you give it the hardware to do the job.

Post edit for more ongoing details-->

There really isn't a master meta package since exact usage and function varies.
I think for a minimal Libvirt/qemu/kvm with Virt-manager base install;
virt-manager
qemu-system-x86
Those two alone get you a minimally into a working setup, I think. Those will bring in necessary libvirt stuff, if not we want to add package libvirt-daemon.

For host communication with the virtual machine through spice with or without a guest network install within the guest these packages;
qemu-guest-agent
spice-vdagent
This gives file drag and drop from host to guest desktop.
For windows guest there are similar guest drivers available. I'm not that expert,
Fedora link?

For sharing files with the host I balk... First off there are many ways, many old ways and upcoming ways. I'm not so interested in most of the methods. Since kernel 5.4 and still maturing is qcow2 as a block device and I've lost track of it after my first dive a few years ago. I'll pick up on that someday. A long time ago I decided (for me) that virtual network bridging was a bad idea, which works fine. To sidestep this I use extra hardware and mcvtap's only - to the same result. My brains auto-floppy-loader may eventual find that floppy.

In the meantime, and preferably I use usb thumbdrives or virtual drives connected as such. So pass, or mount these devices on demand, do your thing, and disconnect. Anything online is in that group. Other mixed intranet guest have a peer vm offering samba. Easy.

For external remote access there are some packages commonly missed.
ssh-askpass
netcat-openbsd
dnsmasq
iptables <-- I think the transition away is almost complete in bookworm?
Not everyone will access vm's from another machine, but is is a good way to give under powered computers access to a vm more powerful than itself. And note that usb's on one machine may be passed to vm's on another - that's a nice trick that fits tightly into my file sharing method.

qemu-utils is all alone, install this to gain superior imaging tools, read man qemu-img
libguestfs-tools is very fat, install this to gain extra image format tools, namely virt-sparsify

There are more extras and expansions for most of these starter packages. Extra bios type support, foreign disk formats, and things I don't know about. Still maturing is video pass through support like virgl and whatever else. Overall this is an are where VirtualBox's 'additions' patches the gap for superior guest performance on simplistic machines. On a big box we can eliminate the issue by passing a gpu, eth, and other devices with vfio. So the top end of vm performance under Libvirt/qemu/kvm is essentially unlimited by the host. This has its own long learning curve.

[limotux]

Just to update you, I found after searching and asking Bard/Gemini AI, I can use

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virt-manager

As far as I understood it uses a built in emulator, and it works as a frontend for the virtual machines, similar to VirtualBox.

If it is OK and works as VirtualBox it would be much better than VirtualBox?

Anybody used

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virt-manager

How is it?
Would I need to install anything else other than virt-manager?

[sunrat]

virt-manager is (generally) used as a front-end for KVM/QEMU. Yes it is better than VBox if you ask most people who use it including me. It works a bit differently so you'll have to learn a few things but is mostly fairly easy and performs better.
It's also open source and available in Debian main repo.

[pbear]

limotux, what's your experience level with VBox? If you've only dabbled in it, starting over with KVM/QEMU probably makes more sense in the long run. OTOH, if you're used to VBox, getting it installed in Debian is quite easy. Never mind the Bard/Gemini instructions (whoever/whatever that is); they're wrong. This is the correct method per Oracle (link in your first post). Run one line at a time, using copy-and-paste. Install wget first, if you don't have already.

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echo "deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/oracle-virtualbox-2016.gpg] https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian bookworm contrib" | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list
wget -O- https://www.virtualbox.org/download/oracle_vbox_2016.asc | sudo gpg --dearmor --yes --output /usr/share/keyrings/oracle-virtualbox-2016.gpg
sudo apt update
sudo apt install virtualbox-7.0

That's adapted slightly, (a) to edit your sources list directly (using the tee command) and (b) to correct a typo in the Oracle instructions (which still say 6.1, where obviously it should be 7.0). You download the extension pack separately (same Oracle link) and install it from within VBox. No need to download guest additions, as they're part of the app package.

A simpler method, by the way, is to install from deb file (yup, same link). Doesn't update automatically, but you can configure VBox to check periodically. Then you update manually, which entails downloading the next version and installing it over the old one. This is the method I use, mainly because it takes no longer than automatic update and makes it a little easier for me to keep multiple systems on the same version.

[limotux]

virt-manager is (generally) used as a front-end for KVM/QEMU. Yes it is better than VBox if you ask most people who use it including me. It works a bit differently so you'll have to learn a few things but is mostly fairly easy and performs better.
It's also open source and available in Debian main repo.

Thanks a lot @sunrat
I will learn more about virt-manager
I will ttry it first on ots own, and see if I need to install KVM or QEMU, I will try to find what difference installing any of them would make.
As I said, I am not after something complicated or too advanced, simply a virtual machine where I install everything I already have on host PLUS Python to play with Python a little and maybe AI later on.

My impression as of what I have read till now, I am tending to like virt-manager more (though not yet installed)
I will appreciate any feedback or guidance.

[limotux]

limotux, what's your experience level with VBox? If you've only dabbled in it, starting over with KVM/QEMU probably makes more sense in the long run. OTOH, if you're used to VBox, getting it installed in Debian is quite easy. Never mind the Bard/Gemini instructions (whoever/whatever that is); they're wrong. This is the correct method per Oracle (link in your first post). Run one line at a time, using copy-and-paste. Install wget first, if you don't have already.

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echo "deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/oracle-virtualbox-2016.gpg] https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian bookworm contrib" | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list
wget -O- https://www.virtualbox.org/download/oracle_vbox_2016.asc | sudo gpg --dearmor --yes --output /usr/share/keyrings/oracle-virtualbox-2016.gpg
sudo apt update
sudo apt install virtualbox-7.0

That's adapted slightly, (a) to edit your sources list directly (using the tee command) and (b) to correct a typo in the Oracle instructions (which still say 6.1, where obviously it should be 7.0). You download the extension pack separately (same Oracle link) and install it from within VBox. No need to download guest additions, as they're part of the app package.

A simpler method, by the way, is to install from deb file (yup, same link). Doesn't update automatically, but you can configure VBox to check periodically. Then you update manually, which entails downloading the next version and installing it over the old one. This is the method I use, mainly because it takes no longer than automatic update and makes it a little easier for me to keep multiple systems on the same version.

Thanks a lot @pbear
I used VBox some time ago on another distro and it was fine.
I mainly used it to test different distros or install same distro I am on on a virtual machine to play with it without breaking my installation.
I hope my previous reply explains what I am after.
I feel I am about to install virt-manager and try and read more or hopefull hear more from the experts here about what QEMU would add to my experience given my use case.

I believe in brainstorming and thinking out loud!

[pwzhangzz]

(The following comments are not relevant to the original question--OP runs bookworm, but I am posting it anyway just to show the versatility of Debian.)

We are running Sid and we install VirtualBox with a simple command:

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sudo apt update && sudo apt install virtualbox virtualbox-ext-pack virtualbox-guest-additions-iso

(The virtualbox package will automatically install virtualbox-dkm to take care of kernel upgrade. You probably also need to install build-essential and linux-headers-$(uname -r), which we routinely install after each Debian installation).

Thus, another command if those packages were not already installed:

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sudo apt install build-essential linux-headers-amd64

Sid developers did a very consistent job in packaging VirtualBox into the Sid contrib repo. It usually got updated within one or two days after Oracle released an upgrade. Almost like a clockwork. There were a couple of exceptions but it turned out that the held-backs were due to serious regressions in the VBox upgrade. I definitely got a feeling that Sid developers care a lot about VirtualBox. They don't have to but they did.

One of the best advantages of VBox over qemu/kvm is the ease to create share folders and doing copy & paste between host and guests. No effort is required. But as I mentioned (primarily as a note to self) in a separate thread:

viewtopic.php?t=158331&sid=6dd6b610fcb8 ... 50&start=9

share folders and copy & paste can also be done in kvm, but it requires some under the sink plumbing--easy for forum elders but for those coming from the Windows world, we might just as well speak Klingon.

[limotux]

(The following comments are not relevant to the original question--OP runs bookworm, but I am posting it anyway just to show the versatility of Debian.)

We are running Sid and we install VirtualBox with a simple command
....
One of the best advantages of VBox over qemu/kvm is the ease to create share folders and doing copy & paste between host and guests.
..

Thanks @pwzhangzz
Now I have an extra task to sort out, shared folder, copy and paste between host and guest. Maybe a cloud drive can help?

Well, SID is/was sort of interesting for me (I came from EndeavourOS - a rolling release.
How is Debian SID compared to EndeavourOS in regards to stability... etc?
How is the default Debian vs SID regarding stability?

[CwF]

I believe in brainstorming and thinking out loud!

Me too.
If you promise to eventually change the OP title to "[SOLVED] Install VirtualBox or Virt-Manager" I'll take some time to type as I think! This could be an informative thread. There are many experts here familiar with VirtualBox and they are posting their secrets already. Let's put all current solutions here.
Libvirt/qemu/kvm specifics are harder to come by since as that 'name' suggest it is an amalgam of technologies and components to be pieced together according to need. Virt-manager is a common 'front-end' to utilize virtual machines.

I will edit my smug qemu/kvm/libvirt superiority post #9 above with additions...
viewtopic.php?p=795167#p795167

[limotux]

I believe in brainstorming and thinking out loud!

Me too.
If you promise to eventually change the OP title to "[SOLVED] Install VirtualBox or Virt-Manager" I'll take some time to type as I think! This could be an informative thread. There are many experts here familiar with VirtualBox and they are posting their secrets already. Let's put all current solutions here.
Libvirt/qemu/kvm specifics are harder to come by since as that 'name' suggest it is an amalgam of technologies and components to be pieced together according to need. Virt-manager is a common 'front-end' to utilize virtual machines.

I will edit my smug qemu/kvm/libvirt superiority post #9 above with additions...
viewtopic.php?p=795167#p795167

Thanks @CwF
Done as you suggested. You were reading my mind by the way.
As far as I have learned till now, it seems to me that though VirtualBox may seem a bit more advanced or user friendly, I think Virt-Manager is a good solution for my use case, just to have some machines to play with.

I will appreciate if we can make this thread more informative and hopefully users would be using Virt-Manager instead of VirtualBox as Virt-Manager is in the repos and meets Debian standards.

[sunrat]

... VirtualBox may seem a bit more advanced or user friendly...

VBox is possibly a bit more user friendly, but not as "advanced". virt-manager/KVM/QEMU is capable of more but needs a bit more knowledge of how to do some things.

[limotux]

Thanks a lot @sunrat
I have a feeling I better install Virt-Manager.
For my simple use case, just to create one or more virtual machines, would Virt-Manager only be enough or I should install something else?
As far as I know for now, QEMU is more convenient but what would it add to my use case?
UPDATE 1:
Installing

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sudo apt install virt-manager

I will update you how is it going.

UPDATE 2:
Installed successfully
Well some attempts initially failed to even start the installation of Debian.
Other attempts worked, but failed to create file system!